[Dinerotrader]

Originally Posted by thalestrader »

I see a lot of folks addicted to sim trading - it is a drug and it is a crutch. How many here and elsewhere have you seen sim trade for 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, and when finally posting profits day after day the trader goes live, immediately has two or three big losing day's in a row, and rather than trade through it he or she immediately runs back to the comfortable shelter of the sim platform for 6 more months of "practice". If you can trade sim with 90% profitable sessions, and then blow out three live in a row - you do not need more sim. You need to find out what bad habits work in sim but do not work live. In order to uncover those, you need to trade live - not sim.
Best Wishes,

Thales

In other words. Don't do what I have done.

[MCM]

Originally Posted by zdo »

. and yes, I do have my 10,000 hours in...

And there in lies the secret...

Working - I figure - on my 1000-1250 range.

[snowbird]

Originally Posted by emg »

I bet 99% of the people in here are brokers and vendors. they want to tell you "its gaurantee risk free trading futures. Please open an account with me." Or, my $3000 robot software system is gaurantee profit!"

Not been my experience at all.... spend some time here if your serious about trading and willing to put in the time... the brokers and vendors are easy to spot, and most don't stick around too long.

[sicktrader]

I have been trading for quite a few years, but only the past two years as my sole income. I gamble a lot, well I used to gamble a lot in regards to sports, horses, and anything else where I thought I had an edge. I would be in Vegas at least one week a month. While I did profit quite a bit there wasn't ever any pressure on me because of my real job. Well, the home building went to bust, and I had enough cash and I was profitable at trading so I figured that is what I will do to continue to provide for my family. It is different when everything is on the line, no doubt. I have been there before and so have many of you. My first advice is If you have a system theat works, you need to stick to it. Secondly, and most importantly if this is your living, YOU NEED TO CASH OUT. Whatever works for you is fine, I cash out when I double my bankroll. Money in a trading account is not the same as money in a bank account. This, in my mind, is the most important rule in trading for a living.

[Cory2679]

Originally Posted by thalestrader »

I see a lot of folks addicted to sim trading - it is a drug and it is a crutch. How many here and elsewhere have you seen sim trade for 6 months, 12 months, 18 months, and when finally posting profits day after day the trader goes live, immediately has two or three big losing day's in a row, and rather than trade through it he or she immediately runs back to the comfortable shelter of the sim platform for 6 more months of "practice". If you can trade sim with 90% profitable sessions, and then blow out three live in a row - you do not need more sim. You need to find out what bad habits work in sim but do not work live. In order to uncover those, you need to trade live - not sim.

Thanks for the post, Thales. I see what you're saying and agree with you.

However, I can't help but feel that if a trader trades SIM unprofitably week after week, that it's a waste of time and money to go live.

So...I would suggest that a trader like that continue to trade SIM, but to avoid getting addicted to it, tell him/herself ahead of time that once he/she achieves 2 weeks in a row of profitable SIM trading, it's time to move live for the first time (ideally a micro forex account, IMO) and never go back to SIM (unless on the side to test a new market/strategy, etc.). What do you think?

[maxima]

Originally Posted by TradeRunner »

Sorry I don't follow you argument - its performance related and requires loads of practice.

You learn to ride a bike using stabilisers.

TradeRunner

No. You learn that way. And I dont.

But the argument was - drawing and reading about bicycles, learning how to fix them and names of the part but never riding them....

that is correct analogue to paper trading vs live trading...... this is how I see it.

[Cory2679]

Originally Posted by maxima »

...drawing and reading about bicycles, learning how to fix them and names of the part but never riding them....

that is correct analogue to paper trading vs live trading...

I'm not trying to promote/defend sim trading...but in response to this particular post...my perspective is that this would be more analogous to reading about trading in books/forums/blogs/etc., watching videos, chatting, going to seminars/classes, etc...but never actually trading...

If we're talking about bike riding, to me, sim trading is analogous to riding a stationary bike in a health club and trading very small size is analogous to riding a bike with training wheels/stabilizers...I guess...although as it's already been stated, all of these analogies probably truly fall short, anyway.

[Head2k]

I've been sim trading for quite some time. And I really think that until you show consistent profits on the sim there is no reason to start live.
On the other hand, I undersand zdo and Thales, but i must admit that it took me quite long to come to this understanding. The problem is that on the sim you know you don't risk anything. And that can lead to building bad habits and/or it can prevent you from taking the trading seriously.
If you had to start trading live, you wouldn't start until you had a perfectly defined and tested system. Assuming you got over the initial naivity stage. But with the sim there is no need for that. You can just try it and see. And that's what makes the sim counter-productive. If you are lazy or you just don't realize or don't want to realize what it actually takes to develop a trading plan, then the sim provides an alternative. You don't need a plan, you can trade ideas or concepts. But this is not the way how to develop a system, not even the way how to test anything. It is just a way to keep playing and a way to delay taking the trading seriously and doing what it takes to develop and test a system.