[Soultrader]

lol you guys are too funny

[ezduzzit]

Heh, heh.. agreed.. but while it didn't work well for them it sure worked out well for ME, having jumped in at the low extreme to ride the baloney move up.... gracious me that was a nice ride in only an hour's worth of play and of course what goes up must come down, eh? One of my better days.

Happy Trading

[wrines]

Congrats on gaining on that pop.
I think the better play (one which *I* failed to jump on, sadly for me) was realizing the market would drop huge soon after, which it has. I mean, seriously, anyone who swing trades stocks will tell you that as soon as you can't trust the company's financial reports, the stock is junk (and it will pay to short it), which is analgous to the stupid "revisions" the government keeps pumping out.
W

[protrader]

in my opinion :p :rolleyes:

[Soultrader]

lol nice one protrader.

[willd]

Market manuipulation - Yes it exists. Do a search on Working Group on Financial Markets or Plunge Protection Team. 'President's Working Group on Financial Markets in the United States. It includes the Secretary of the Treasury, the Chairman of the Federal Reserve, the Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission and the chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission.'

The stock market is inherintly bullish. Anytime a sharp move down occurrs on negative news - ie London bombings, Hurricane Katrina, 9-11, the markets recover. Markets need a push due to upcoming election fears - call on the Fed to print money and the PPT will get into action.

[redlew]

Since I trade only on a daily basis and am flat after market hours I tend to think of manipulation in the very short time frame. I am convinced that the black box traders have ways to jam the market at points of support and resistance that happen so fast that the rest of us mouse clickers are vulnerable to it. If your software will make charts in one second or one tick intervals, compare the bars to the time and sales when the YM has been swept and see if you don't notice some patterns. Those guys know where stops are likely to be and can probe the market and offset their trades in milliseconds. If they can cascade some stops it is free money, if it doesn't work, what the heck they are in and out without much risk. Is it manipulation? I guess it depends how you look at it.

[Bird of Fire]

Originally Posted by ezduzzit »

Very true Wrines.. .but then we have always been subject to that kind of manipulation in all markets and the only sane response is to simply recognize the pigs are being fancied up as is usual for this time and take advantage of it while it lasts. Hopefully most people in here are traders rather than buy and hold investors and will be just as happy to take advantage of the swing back to reality when it occurs. Heck, it is obvious in the markets now that they are having major trouble keeping the cute little dresses on those poor pigs long enough to even get to the elections.

Frankly, I can't help but feel that traders who trade the futures markets by listening to the news, etc. are already well on their way to emptying their trading accounts in short order anyway.

If they are longer term swing and position traders then one can only hope they are not falling for this expected short term mirage. However, market statistics on winners versus losers have not changed much in eons and thus we can depend on the fact that in reality even most of the longer term traders are just as oblivious to what is really going on as the averge man or woman at the local shopping mall. But, is that a bad thing? Absolutely not. If it weren't for the huge percentage of losers in the financial markets, we wouldn't be pulling any meaningful profits out of trading them. This game was not designed so that most people could win and it will always be so.

Happy Trading

The "game" as you put it was designed for portfolio managers to hedge their bets on other instruments, not to speculate or crap shoot for a scalp or two of quick and easy profit.