[BlowFish]

Actually I always though the whole point of that expression is that you have to walk the walk before you talk the talk. Seems you might have put the cart before the horse.

The figures don't look too bad having said that. I would say you are in a dangerous position right now. Firstly sim is pretty different to when money is at risk. The real big issue is that it seems like you are setting yourself up for is this:- If you win from the start when you get the inevitable drawdowns it is far far more difficult to deal with emotionally. This happened to me. I did extra ordinarily well when I first started trading I grew a small account to six figures over a few months in a statistically significant way (it wasn't luck). However some how I lost the thread and never have been able to capture the same mental state that I had in those early days.

One of the trading psychologists (maybe Elder haven't read him for years) asserts that early wins can be far more dangerous than early losses. I would have to agree.

[humdesggg]

blowfish ... the name rings a bell. sounds like a guy from elitetrader

[Jugador]

Originally Posted by BlowFish »

If you win from the start when you get the inevitable drawdowns it is far far more difficult to deal with emotionally.

Thanks...I won't take it to hard then, when I most likely slip back into the red.

[Sledge]

Jugador-
If I may ask a question or two. I say with all sincerity the questions I ask and the observations I make. I was once a very new trader, I have learned a lot from folks here and elsewhere who took the time to answer my questions and ground me from time to time (as if the market can't hand you your own ass- and no one on a message board is needed to "rub it in")

On this Demo account:
1. Are you starting the account with THE ACTUAL AMOUNT that you intend to go live with? Meaning- if you are planning to start with say $10,000 when you get the funds- is your demo starting out at $10,000?

The reason I ask is that if you plug in say "$100,000" and you get used to trading 2.00 lots or 3.00 lots, you will be highly disappointed when you start a real account with our example of $10,000 and your account cannot handle the margin of taking 2 and 3 or beyond lots to trade with.

2. Are you calculating this margin? Taking into account breathing room to let trades run etc.? And are you working within your 2% or 3% risk rule on your account? Meaning: If you are willing to risk $200 on a trade as it is 2% of a $10,000 account- how many ticks or pips are you able to handle before the $200 is hit? Obviously, if you trade smaller lot sizes- it allows you more "breathing room" if you are trading a 2.00 lot of forex- you are able to withstand a 10 pip move against you and the 2% is gone. If you move that to a .10 lot you have 200 pips that it could move against you before your stop was hit. Hopefully this makes sense.

3. Are you actively putting Stop Losses on EVERY Trade? Believe me when I demo traded- I never put stop losses on trades- until I had my ass handed to me over and over again when I was wrong. Finally, it sunk in- thank goodness they were Demo Dollars- I had some real bad losses- when I thought I was "untouchable."

4. Are you treating this as if it is REAL? Are you taking only trades you would take with REAL money? Are you just as pissed when you lose $50 Demo dollars as you are thrilled when you make $50 demo dollars? Treat this as if it is real and you will gain more benefit than anything else. Only take trades you would as real- only take trades that follow your set-up and edge (you do have your edge defined don't you?)

5. You MUST be patient, disciplined, and focused- 100% of the time when you trade. One of the BEST pieces of advice I have ever read is this: Great traders don't get over-excited about winning trades, and don't get depressed about losing trades- they know that the market is what it is, and that it does what it does.

I wish you well in your quest- but remember to be humble and continue to learn- if this advice is not heeded- the market will surely provide you with all the humbling you will ever need- when you least expect it!
Aaron

[Jugador]

Originally Posted by Sledge »

Jugador-












I wish you well in your quest- but remember to be humble and continue to learn- if this advice is not heeded- the market will surely provide you with all the humbling you will ever need- when you least expect it!
Aaron

Hi...I have $25,000 set aside to trade, so yes, I'm trading the sim account as if it has that same amount. Yes, I'm calculating the margin as I would actually be expected to put up. The plan is to get out of a trade when I'm down a 1/2 percent (10 ticks or $125 for the ES), and out for the day if I'm down 2% at any time during the day. ($500)

Yes, my trading platform (Ninja) automatically puts my 10 tick stop in as soon as I'm filled, and I don't cancel it.

Yes, I do get upset a bit when I do something stupid and lose a trade. But, I'm sure the emotions will be on a higher level when I go live.

I don't know if I have an edge or not. If I can double my sim account, then maybe I can say I have an edge. I'm trading the Turtle System on an intraday chart. It's supposed to be a pretty good method. You've probably heard about it, but if not, here's a link to the rules. Turtle Rules

Thanks for the great advice Aaron, it's guys like you that make sites like this so valuable for beginners!

[snowbird]

Turtle system works great when markets trend, abut can suffer long periods of draw downs when they don't.

Are you trading the exact turtle rules?

Have you looked at what draw down you might have to stomach during several days/weeks of sideways movement?

snowbird

[Jugador]

Originally Posted by snowbird »

Turtle system works great when markets trend, abut can suffer long periods of draw downs when they don't.

Are you trading the exact turtle rules?

Have you looked at what draw down you might have to stomach during several days/weeks of sideways movement?

snowbird

Hi... It's a toughy to follow, that's for dang sure! I'm just starting out, so I'm not 100% positive I'm following the rules exactly. I'm still having a little trouble figuring the ATR out.

And, I've already broken the rules a few times! I thought I'd get cute and fade the signals one day, and got hammered for about $800!

It's a little too early for me to know if I can stomach the "chop". I'll stick with it for a few more weeks and see how it goes.

[Sledge]

Originally Posted by Jugador »

Hi...I have $25,000 set aside to trade, so yes, I'm trading the sim account as if it has that same amount. Yes, I'm calculating the margin as I would actually be expected to put up. The plan is to get out of a trade when I'm down a 1/2 percent (10 ticks or $125 for the ES), and out for the day if I'm down 2% at any time during the day. ($500)

Yes, my trading platform (Ninja) automatically puts my 10 tick stop in as soon as I'm filled, and I don't cancel it.

Yes, I do get upset a bit when I do something stupid and lose a trade. But, I'm sure the emotions will be on a higher level when I go live.

I don't know if I have an edge or not. If I can double my sim account, then maybe I can say I have an edge. I'm trading the Turtle System on an intraday chart. It's supposed to be a pretty good method. You've probably heard about it, but if not, here's a link to the rules. Turtle Rules

Thanks for the great advice Aaron, it's guys like you that make sites like this so valuable for beginners!

Thank you.
I have to say then- kudos- you are doing this properly and that is very rare. I demo traded for 20 months before I spent a cent live on this- I did it the hard way, and it appears you are as well- but hone your craft, as you appear to be! I applaud you- seriously!

Your edge can be any number of things- I guess it is how you make money- maybe it is a set-up, or some type of "trigger" but it also is your rules. Defining rules that you set- for "no trigger- no trade" will work wonders for anyone trading. I have a set of rules that "if X happens, pending trade set at Y and "Z" must happen for me to stay in the trade" So step one is my identifying, Step two is the execution and Step 3 is the maint. of the trade.

Hopefully this helps. You sound like you really are in this for the long haul!
Aaron