[NowTheMoment]

Made a chart today depicting where Goldman Sachs and friends like; Saloman Brothers, Smith Barney, Merrill Lynch and JP Morgan traded today in the S&P pit for Wed Nov. 9, 2011.

The chart is an eMini ESz1, with up arrows (buy) and down arrows (sell) area trades. These are the actual areas the 800 lbs traded in the SPz1 contract on the CME floor.

Notice where the reversals are in accordance with the arrows.

Like to read your comments. PM for Skype.

[smith]

Originally Posted by NowTheMoment »

Made a chart today depicting where Goldman Sachs and friends like; Saloman Brothers, Smith Barney, Merrill Lynch and JP Morgan traded today in the S&P pit for Wed Nov. 9, 2011.

The chart is an eMini ESz1, with up arrows (buy) and down arrows (sell) area trades. These are the actual areas the 800 lbs traded in the SPz1 contract on the CME floor.

Notice where the reversals are in accordance with the arrows.

Like to read your comments. PM for Skype.

interesting chart, you have a seat on the floor ?

[SIUYA]

were they trading as prop, hedging a book or operating for clients?
Did they have vwap orders over the day....
Was the same client operating through different brokers, or did GS, JPM and others give their orders to each other as well?
Very hard to tell anything unless you have real information about the origin of the orders.

[steve46]

The premise is that the big players have some advantage that can be used by simply piggybacking their positions.....in my opinion that strategy isn't workable....

This (institutional trading) is a world that I am very familiar with, having "been there" for many years....I am not interested in talking about my employer but will provide a snapshot that may help those interested to avoid that road

First, institutions have money...much more than any retail trader could mobilize....that is a given, and they employ a number of strategies from HFT to arb and they take the position of "the house" by matching clients to risk vehicles upon request (for a fee of course)...

The short story is that some of these concepts work well, however they are volatile and retail clients could never (on their own) stand the swings. Finally there are time periods where institutions do not do well and that is simply the fact...not my opinion.

Here is a recent report that sets out the facts about recent performance of Goldman's prop trading group

Goldman Sachs Traders Lost Money 21 Days in Third Quarter, Most Since

It used to make sense to shadow Goldman's positions in equities markets....but I leave it to others to judge for themselves

For my own trading I use concepts that I learned from institutions, however I pick and choose ( I use the concept of "time based pivots for example") and am very careful about risk (as can be seen in my thread "An institutional look at S &P Futures" in the emini forum).

From my point of view, in a given period of time, simply following the positions of any institution (without knowing what you are doing) can cost you money, more than any retail trader can afford. In my opinion there is no short cut to learning to read the markets on your own...

For those interested I will be winding down my activities here on this site in the next week. So ask your questions now while before I move on...

Good luck

[joshdance]

Originally Posted by NowTheMoment »

Made a chart today depicting where Goldman Sachs and friends like; Saloman Brothers, Smith Barney, Merrill Lynch and JP Morgan traded today in the S&P pit for Wed Nov. 9, 2011.

The chart is an eMini ESz1, with up arrows (buy) and down arrows (sell) area trades. These are the actual areas the 800 lbs traded in the SPz1 contract on the CME floor.

Notice where the reversals are in accordance with the arrows.

Like to read your comments. PM for Skype.

The arrows look about as random as they come. There are arrows everywhere, so of course there are arrows at the reversal points. I wouldn't plot these arrows on my chart in real time for any reason as they would only distract me.

[bobcollett]

Originally Posted by steve46 »

For those interested I will be winding down my activities here on this site in the next week. So ask your questions now while before I move on...

Good luck

As my late father-in - law used to say while I was courting his daughter,"
"here's your coat and hat, why you leaving?"
bobc

[NowTheMoment]

Originally Posted by steve46 »

It used to make sense to shadow Goldman's positions in equities markets....but I leave it to others to judge for themselves

For my own trading I use concepts that I learned from institutions, however I pick and choose ( I use the concept of "time based pivots for example") and am very careful about risk (as can be seen in my thread "An institutional look at S &P Futures" in the emini forum).

From my point of view, in a given period of time, simply following the positions of any institution (without knowing what you are doing) can cost you money, more than any retail trader can afford. In my opinion there is no short cut to learning to read the markets on your own...

For those interested I will be winding down my activities here on this site in the next week. So ask your questions now while before I move on...

Good luck

Thanks for the comments, Steve. Yes we know about Goldmans' loss of 100 mil, but you know about their overall performance also, it's quite good.

Your chart below is a great lesson of Goldman and Friends being the Supply and the Demand (I'm not trying to teach you anything Steve - I know you know that). If you put up arrows underneath the demand and down arrows on top of supply your chart would depict GS&F 800 lb moves on a daily chart. Where as mine was an intra-day 1500 tick chart. Would you agree?

Your posts have been of importance and an education to me. Thanks for your time and teaching.

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...napshot-11.png

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...0873931895.png

[steve46]

Originally Posted by bobcollett »

As my late father-in - law used to say while I was courting his daughter,"
"here's your coat and hat, why you leaving?"
bobc

Well Bob, I would not take it too seriously....I would guess your late father in law had high hopes for his daughter and perhaps unrealistic expectations about you..

For myself I have a few projects I hope to complete...

Good luck to you.