[Enigmatics]

Mulling over what it is I do well and what it is I don't. I've long maintained that one of my weaknesses as a trader is not maximizing trades when they go in my favor. I tend to take profits quickly. The previous 2-3 weeks were chalk full of trades that I took profit early on only to have the stocks go up quite a bit more. So this week, I tried adapting .... tried scaling out of stocks or riding thru dips. The end result was a red week working through some of the "chop" we saw.

Obviously as a trader I'd like to be able to stomach dips better. I'd certainly like to utilize scaling. But if I'm hitting my modest profit goals on a daily basis just playing the first pop on the setup I trade ..... well then why get away from that? I would assume in time that as I continue to build my portfolio, I might be able to take more advantage of scaling and riding thru dips. The largest net can absorb the most risk right?

[MightyMouse]

Originally Posted by Enigmatics »

Mulling over what it is I do well and what it is I don't. I've long maintained that one of my weaknesses as a trader is not maximizing trades when they go in my favor. I tend to take profits quickly. The previous 2-3 weeks were chalk full of trades that I took profit early on only to have the stocks go up quite a bit more. So this week, I tried adapting .... tried scaling out of stocks or riding thru dips. The end result was a red week working through some of the "chop" we saw.

Obviously as a trader I'd like to be able to stomach dips better. I'd certainly like to utilize scaling. But if I'm hitting my modest profit goals on a daily basis just playing the first pop on the setup I trade ..... well then why get away from that? I would assume in time that as I continue to build my portfolio, I might be able to take more advantage of scaling and riding thru dips. The largest net can absorb the most risk right?

If you got out before you were supposed to you did something wrong. If you got out after you should have, you did something wrong.

If you get in before you should have, then you did something wrong. If you didn't get in when you should have, then you also did something wrong.

It seems to me like you might need to better define when you are supposed to get in and when you are supposed to get out so that you stop second guessing yourself. You can see how fruitful your second guessing yourself was. A really simple remedy, if you are committed, is to take your indicators and consider what your expectation of price is with each combination of your indicators. The formula for figuring out your combinations is (categories)^(indicators) . Categories could be something like bullish, neutral, bearish...

So 4 indicators with 3 categories would give you 81 combinations to consider. 6 indicators with 3 categories will give you 729 combinations.

Its a really good exercise and it clearly defines your reasons for staying in and getting out based on the indicators you are watching.

MM

[Enigmatics]

Originally Posted by MightyMouse »

If you got out before you were supposed to you did something wrong. If you got out after you should have, you did something wrong.

If you get in before you should have, then you did something wrong. If you didn't get in when you should have, then you also did something wrong.

It seems to me like you might need to better define when you are supposed to get in and when you are supposed to get out so that you stop second guessing yourself. You can see how fruitful your second guessing yourself was. A really simple remedy, if you are committed, is to take your indicators and consider what your expectation of price is with each combination of your indicators. The formula for figuring out your combinations is (categories)^(indicators) . Categories could be something like bullish, neutral, bearish...

So 4 indicators with 3 categories would give you 81 combinations to consider. 6 indicators with 3 categories will give you 729 combinations.

Its a really good exercise and it clearly defines your reasons for staying in and getting out based on the indicators you are watching.

MM

Entry is not the issue. It's the sell. I commonly sell too early, even though technically I am hitting my profit goal for the trade. Should it matter that I'm missing the larger moves? I'm wrestling over it because it seems like I could've traded "longer" in that uptrend we had all during October but I didn't. I got a little frustrated with that kind of missed opportunity. Now that I'm trying it the first week here in November when we've been choppy, I actually took a step back. So is it better to just play the pop at all times until I better learn market trending .... or better yet until I've sufficiently built my account up even more?

I'm not so much an indicators guy. My whole strategy is based on a combination of Volume Spread Analysis, Market Profile, VWAP, and Point of Control.

[steve46]

One solution is to leave a small position in place (with a GTC order) in case it runs. If you place a stop, your worst case is that you pay commission and take a little off your profit. Your best case is you make additional profit.

The benefit to you if you use that rule with discipline is that after any time period (say a month) you look at your results, you may be motivated to always keep an extra unit in place.

Good luck

[MightyMouse]

Originally Posted by Enigmatics »

Entry is not the issue. It's the sell. I commonly sell too early, even though technically I am hitting my profit goal for the trade. Should it matter that I'm missing the larger moves? I'm wrestling over it because it seems like I could've traded "longer" in that uptrend we had all during October but I didn't. I got a little frustrated with that kind of missed opportunity. Now that I'm trying it the first week here in November when we've been choppy, I actually took a step back. So is it better to just play the pop at all times until I better learn market trending .... or better yet until I've sufficiently built my account up even more?

I'm not so much an indicators guy. My whole strategy is based on a combination of Volume Spread Analysis, Market Profile, VWAP, and Point of Control.

VSA, MP, VWAP, POC, price, volume, time, candles, ohlc bars, and etc are all indicators. Each assembles historic data on a chart. If you are a discretionary trader, then you need to understand what your indicators need to look like in order to stay in the trade. As an example, perhaps, you want to stay in if volume is increasing, price is moving away from value, and price bars are making a series of higher highs and higher lows. ( Just a guess). the point of my previous post was that you need to define what you need to see in order to stay in a trade longer, what you need to see to add contracts to a trade, and what you need to see when you need to exit a trade

You are getting out at the wrong time because you do not understand what your indicators are telling you and you are engaging in a very common defeatist pattern of accepting a small profit because of a fear of the unknown or some other fear.

Leaving a small position as steve46 suggests is a good idea as well.

[Enigmatics]

Originally Posted by MightyMouse »

VSA, MP, VWAP, POC, price, volume, time, candles, ohlc bars, and etc are all indicators. Each assembles historic data on a chart. If you are a discretionary trader, then you need to understand what your indicators need to look like in order to stay in the trade. As an example, perhaps, you want to stay in if volume is increasing, price is moving away from value, and price bars are making a series of higher highs and higher lows. ( Just a guess). the point of my previous post was that you need to define what you need to see in order to stay in a trade longer, what you need to see to add contracts to a trade, and what you need to see when you need to exit a trade

Perhaps my ability to translate the candles needs revising ..... maybe using price bars instead or possibly Heikin-Ashi candles. The HA candles seemed like they'd be right up my alley since they smooth out the price data using averages.

You are getting out at the wrong time because you do not understand what your indicators are telling you and you are engaging in a very common defeatist pattern of accepting a small profit because of a fear of the unknown or some other fear.

Leaving a small position as steve46 suggests is a good idea as well.

Sobering comment ..... no seriously though .... there's a truth to what you're saying, especially the fear of the unknown part. I mean we're currently trading in a very volatile market place where most of the equities do not act on their own behalf.

[Enigmatics]

Originally Posted by steve46 »

One solution is to leave a small position in place (with a GTC order) in case it runs. If you place a stop, your worst case is that you pay commission and take a little off your profit. Your best case is you make additional profit.

The benefit to you if you use that rule with discipline is that after any time period (say a month) you look at your results, you may be motivated to always keep an extra unit in place.

Good luck

Along that note .... if you're going to leave some out there, what kind of position size should I be entering in with in the first place? I currently pay $4.99/trade and ECN fees (which vary by position size). Is there a "make sense" sizing for scaling and leaving some out there? I'm commonly trading with 400 shares right now. I know it's not a lot but it's what I'm presently most comfortable with. I used to use anywhere between 500-800, but scaled back after I had hit a trading rut a couple months ago.

[SIUYA]

all the extra analysis in the world wont matter if you cannot deal with the trade off running positions has.
This involves giving up profits sometimes....often with the occasional big win.
If you dont like, that, cant deal with it, or dont want to tolerate it then stick to what you are doing.
If you can do some backtesting on it where you can have an idea about the reality of what numbers will occur do that.