[djohnsonhot]

Very Nice Charts, you all! I appreciate these.

DJ

[szubaark]

7/7

Total 12 trades for -3.50
On one trade Price never went below prior candle low but BID Flashed and i got filled anyways, got Mad -2 Loss
After the consolidation around 1:35 i thought market is trying to put bottom so got stubborn and rode my Long for a -5 Loss.

Another tough day for me. This is REAL Trades i took. Not marked up end of day crap that i see a lot being posted here. REAL TIME trading and end of day are not same.

[djohnsonhot]

Szu:

One thing I read in your post caught my attention:

........."around 1:35 i thought market is trying to put bottom so got stubborn..."

For one thing, I agree that we need to post real trades.....I also think that you are showing that you are studying your trades post-session and are man/woman enough to admit when you see yourself as stubborn.

I did the EXACT same thing on Monday, if I recall: I thought we were going short all day and entered a VERY stupid trade SHORT AT THE BOTTOM!

I have many trading rules, and one of them is a combination:

" Never enter short at the bottom of a range (esp. if several waves have occurred short) and NEVER go long at the top of ranges."

Allow me to add another rule: let the VOLUME, the PRICE ACTION, and S/R and ATTEMPTS to go further or roll-over, or reverse course to guide you. Do what Brooks says and let TWO attempts guide you.

Also, one of my main trading rules: NEVER trade against the prevaling trend, even if the entry is into a lucrative counter-move (pull-back in my book)....always go for the meat of a nice trend trade and keep looking for those pull-backs into the 20EMA (I use 22 periods, Exponential and TRIPLE EXP)....and look for that SIGNAL bar (doji, esp those STARS or those LONG-WICKED candles with that long wick on the top or the bottom - - which tells you that there was an ATTEMPT to go long against a short trend and vice-versa in a long trend.

In essence, stubborn is the word for it if you THINK that there is something happening, and in fact the PA is telling you, shouting to you, that you are against a trend.

FINALLY! There is always another trade in the session to be had. Wait out those trades that you say to yourself: "Would I bet a thousand dollars on this entry I am ABOUT to take." Bet that thousand on MORE THAN ONE indicator, more than ONE attempt, and more than one reason.....never WILLINGLY trade short or long against the prevailing trend.


I have shared with you pretty much all of my rules.

DJ

[rigel]

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

A suggestion. Once upon a time I became involved in a "Ross Hook" thread. The participants were having all sorts of trouble making them work, as well as the "1-2-3s". The key problem as I saw it was that they were finding these "hooks" all over the place, even in the middle of nowhere. Even worse, they were often getting trapped into a counter-trend-trading loop. I suggested that they first locate support and resistance in their charts (if they knew how to do so), then play only those Ross setups that occurred against one or the other, i.e., against either support or resistance. The success rate was, of course, much higher.

Moral of the story is that those who are having trouble making these setups work may want to plot support and resistance first, then take only those setups that bang up against one or the other, as you suggest. If it doesn't help, then at least the trader is no worse off than before.

Spot on Db, folks have a similar problem with VSA as well,
S/R levels play a crucial role and infact as pointed out Al does highlight this in a section dealing with horizontal line: swing points and other key price levels and I am sure he takes note of these levels from higher timeframe charts as well. Having gone through the book it is clear that he has watched both higher timeframe charts like 15, 30 etc and 1,2,3min, that he does not need them anymore now, he is able to blend the candles mentally, very similar to what happens with indicator divergences like RSI, MaCD etc, after a while you can see them coming just by observing the peaks/retracements of price moves against a MA.

[BlowFish]

Originally Posted by guyfibonacci »

I'll get it right eventually.

Welcome to the forums, if you are having trouble with something just ask

[BlowFish]

Originally Posted by thalestrader »

.............snip........ .........

If I'm not mistaken, you were the same one who said that price never signals the big moves before they happen, to which I responded that my experience has led me to believe the oppposite is true. You may have found a decent book to read, but there is a big difference between reading a book and reading price. I mean no disrespect to Brook's or his book, but his book is a book of "set-ups." .......................

Of course to a break out trader it doesn't really matter whether price signals the big moves before they happen . If you take trades in a location where there is good potential for a big move (at major S/R), well chances are better to get a good move.

You are right about the Brooks book. It is 'setup' orientated, It is also very firmly 'scalping' for ticks focused (though he talks about holding for longer). It is not really a 'why things happen book' it is a book of observations and gudelines (and there are a hell of a lot of them) The only 'why' he talks about (correct me if I am wrong here) is from the point of view of where traders have entered, where their stops will be, where they will be locked in from, or where they will be locked out. This makes sense for a scalp orientated approach.

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

..... given that so many of the people posting here are new, I'll point out once that ignoring overnight activity is a mistake since this is so often where the movement of price after the NY open is "telegraphed". There are no "gaps" in instruments that are traded around the clock.

This particular behaviour is one of the many observations that Brooks makes. It was not something that 'jived' with me for the reasons you mention (also a 'gap' is no reason to ignore the longer term context of where price is at). Thats not to say it may or may not have merit. It would be very simple to test by eye balling charts.

I found it an interesting book and took away a couple of things (which I think I mentioned early in the thread). Having said that it is quite difficult, I imagine particularly so for someone who does not have a reasonable understanding of price action to start with.

[BlowFish]

Originally Posted by Shamal »

Thanks for the explanation. Anything that helps understanding price behavior is useful and provides an extra edge to a trader , there is no need to be blinkered in this business. If somebody does not find use of S/R or volume, leave it out of your trading. Personally have no problem incorporating sound, logical concepts. Think it is totally childish to squabble over my and your thread.

True, though a threads value can be diminished if focus becomes too diluted. DB makes a valuable point and anyone who is ontrested should at the bare minimum refer to his blog. Chances are everything you might want to ask has been answered there. Failing that he has a thread specifically to answer questions that still remain.

Originally Posted by Shamal »

As for the many Al brooks setups, it is relatively easy to mark them up in hindsight, like all patterns and indicators, but in realtime it is not that easy to read and act upon with confidence.......

However just because it is not easy does not mean that at is not doable. The setups themselves are pretty consistent. You are spot on about confidence. Chances are if you are not confident in the setup (i.e. done enough checking to ascertain it 'works') you wont be able to act on them. If you can not identify them consistently.......well then you should not even be thinking about trading them.

The 'core' setups are far fewer. If having difficulty identifying them I would take one or two and stick with them.

[Shamal]

You are right Blowfish,
The book can be difficult for a total beginner.
The setups do materialise day in and day out and as rigel pointed out Al does look at Support/Resistance levels, clearly evident in the Best Trades chapter right across various timeframes.

And also a good point by rigel, Al has been looking at these various timeframe charts and analysing them daily and hence has been able to reach a stage where he is able to trade only from 5min charts, but somewhere I think he still mentions printing out lower timeframe charts at the end of the day for analysis.