[brownsfan019]

Originally Posted by daedalus »

If its similar to the es its all good but I just wanted to confirm before I shell out money.

Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, but for me deadalus, the reason I really like the bonds is that it's much smoother than the ES. By smoother I mean the moves are measured and where I place my stops can often hold; unlike some days on the ES.

Point is that while I personally think it's worth a look, if you are looking for rapid movements like the ES can provide, you may be disappointed. If you are looking for quick moves, watch the bonds during big econ announcements and you'll see when they typically move.

[brownsfan019]

Attached are some 1 minute charts of the ZB and ZN



(note - you could also get a 2 week free trial to OEC's software if you want to pull up the charts w/o paying for the data fees initially)

[daedalus]

You're the man Brownsfan!!!! Seriously dude... thanks!

[trader273]

what charting software are you using, I can easily send you 1 min data for the past couple of days if your charting software can read it.

[brownsfan019]

Originally Posted by daedalus »

You're the man Brownsfan!!!! Seriously dude... thanks!

No prob. Had a little time last night to grab a few screenshots.

You'll note they go from 8am-Noon EST as that's when the moves usually occur. You could trade them all day but the moves and volume die off around Noon EST.

[bathrobe]

Brownsfan,

Do you recommend TA for trading bonds, or MP, VSA? Also I traded the 30 year for a very little bit and ultimately what made me leave was the large spread sometimes. I would like to go back to the ZB and add the 10 year as well, I like the relationship between the 30 year and ES, which is what I primarily trade.

Chris

[Ronin]

The Bond Market has many pecularities and characteristics for example:

Significant lows in the Bond market are followed by significant lows in the stock market 20 days later

Intraday support is tested several times before complete reversal, in the ES or S&P500 it only happens once, most of the time.

On The Payrolls Employment Report many times the expectation Bar are raised or lowered 20% or more and that will be a reliable clue for a reversal of the initial reaction to the report at 8:30 est.

The expectation of supply in the Bond Market is a more important mover than many Economic reports, and many times there are subtle but reliable clues to the future reaction of the Bond Market to the upcoming Auctions.

Before the FED stops changing direction of Interest Rates, the Bond Market will start trading sideways above or below a key support/resistance level until one day that level will be penetrated and a huge move of more than five full poitns will follow.

There are many other price action clues and peculiarities that only with experience you will notice.

[brownsfan019]

Originally Posted by bathrobe »

Brownsfan,

Do you recommend TA for trading bonds, or MP, VSA? Also I traded the 30 year for a very little bit and ultimately what made me leave was the large spread sometimes. I would like to go back to the ZB and add the 10 year as well, I like the relationship between the 30 year and ES, which is what I primarily trade.

Chris

Chris,
I personally use TA in trading bonds and a fan of candlestick patterns.

Not sure how long ago you traded with 'large spreads' but the ZF, ZN and ZB have your standard bid/ask during most trading hours (can get wide during big econ announcements), but the same as the ES in my eyes.

As Ronin said - you'll find support/resistance can be tested numerous times before it finally busts through and as a reversal trader, that bodes well for me. First, my stops hold better vs. ES b/c those levels can hold a few times before breaking. Second, if you can anticipate levels holding, you can get aggressive on your entries.

The key is screentime of course. What works for me or Ronin, may not work for you.