[BlowFish]

I'm inclined to agree head2k. For the argument to hold up one must accept that peoples sole motivation is to make money. There are clearly exceptions some traders/educators publish results (ones that manage funds for example). Some you just know are the real deal. There are also traders that make woeful educators and educators that are poor traders. I have to say I would agree that most educators are a waste of space. I am always wary of the word 'all'.

OP, to be honest it sounds as if your expectations where not realistic. There is a bit of a catch 22 when starting out in so far as you need some experience to sift through all the aforementioned BS, it is hard to work purposefully towards something if you don't know what that something is, or are not fully convinced about it's veracity. It can be pretty hard to discover 'truths' which allow the formation of 'beliefs' that will allow one to trade successfully.

[edabreu]

High Probability Trading
Consists of long hours of keen observation of the market. Keep it simple, keep it clean, gain experience and confidence over time. You start by watching the chart. Take notes. Name repeated patterns. Get familiar with them. When you can see them quickly and know their names then start trading them.
Range charts are unique. Very few traders use them. Very few traders make money. Very few traders focus on price, the tape, volume. Small consistent wins make you money. Once in a while you get a big winner. Whoopee.
Trade the trend, fade the trend, trade a sideways range, scalp it. Whatever fits you and makes you comfortable is what is right for you. Find a strategy you can trade or create one of your own.
Read, read, study, study, practice, practice. Concentrate on your strategy and when you are ready (after thorough testing) stop looking for anything else, stop buying stuff, stop attending seminars, stop reading forum threads, stop all interference and distractions and start to trade. Trade for money. Trade as a businessman. Trade for yourself. Consistency is more important than anything. It all starts with becoming consistent. You can fix consistent (wrong) actions. It is almost impossible to fix erratic behavior.
Eventually, you will have to fly on your own, or crash and burn. Trading is not for everyone.
If you find out that it is not for you, that is great. It is no reflection on you or your life. It is not personal, you did not fail. It is OK to just stop. You may not be wired for this. So, find something else you are good at and/or pursue other avenues of investment.

[SIUYA]

Originally Posted by edabreu »

Trading is not for everyone.
If you find out that it is not for you, that is great. It is no reflection on you or your life. It is not personal, you did not fail. It is OK to just stop. You may not be wired for this. So, find something else you are good at and/or pursue other avenues of investment.

Perfectly said.
Trading has aspects a bit like being a celebrity - sportstar/movie start/airhead. There is generally a lot of hard work before the success, more work behind the scenes and then a lot of continual work to keep it up..... and yet it has an aura of "wow it must be great" about it.
Yes - it can be the best job in the world, however its not for everyone, there are sometimes other more enjoyable things to do.
I know plenty of people who have traded successfully for many years who then proceed to do other things afterward and never look back.
Also not all styles are for everyone either..... there can be a lot of time spent on this pursuit alone.

In terms of time spent. well most professional qualifications seem to take about a minimum of three years of constant partying - i mean studying - and cost an arm and a leg, and there is no guarantee of success there either. I often hear there are more qualified lawyers doing other things other than those actually practicing the law, why should trading be any different.
(Collect your free trading certificate/diploma at the door)

[MightyMouse]

Originally Posted by markl67 »

Well, after 18 months of researching, demo trading, live trading, webinars, trading groups, books, magazines, I have finally decided to throw in the towel. I hate giving up, but I have a family to support and this just ain't workin', so back to looking for another 9-5 hum drum job - oh well. Good luck to everyone...

Mark,

Congrats on it only taking you 18 months. Most of us here are too stupid or in denial or delusional. You haven't given up, you've learned. This is at best a hobby for most. And, if you need to support a family, then you probably can't dedicate a lot of time to your hobbies. To make a living doing this requires a great deal of capital. It is no different from running any other type of business. Everyone and anyone who tells you that you can make a living trading with a small account either lives in a paper bag and has very little expenses or is completely full of shit.

Gloss over the ego driven responses. No one will back up their statements with anything substantial.


Good Luck,


MM

[MadMarketScientist]

Great conversation/debate as usual here on TL.

One thing that I always found, back in the days when I was managing some funds is I would show potential investors what we were making, and for this example let's say it was something like 2% - 5% a month, and very manageable/small drawdowns. I can't tell you how many people would say that that sucks, and they can make 25% - 100% a month.

Could they? Highly unlikely and if they did it would last a couple of months before it came crumbling down. But it always drove me crazy that we could be showing very consistent, double digit returns but it was always scoffed at since people get so greedy, and have such high expectations on their investments that they become delusional.

It's like a salesperson who let's say closes 2 of 10 people on something. Most salespeople quite because to them it's a failure - 8 out of 10 said no. When in reality that's an amazing close rate. Again, people just expect way too much.

Whether it's greed, entitlement, lack of education, advertisements, etc...

Just like I feel most traders will quit because they expect to be rich with little effort. And, when someone maybe tries to offer them a realistic training, course, strategy, etc.. they scoff at it since people don't like to buy realism......the fantasy is so much more appealing.

[edabreu]

Originally Posted by MightyMouse »

Mark,

Congrats on it only taking you 18 months. Most of us here are too stupid or in denial or delusional. You haven't given up, you've learned. This is at best a hobby for most. And, if you need to support a family, then you probably can't dedicate a lot of time to your hobbies. To make a living doing this requires a great deal of capital. It is no different from running any other type of business. Everyone and anyone who tells you that you can make a living trading with a small account either lives in a paper bag and has very little expenses or is completely full of shit.

Gloss over the ego driven responses. No one will back up their statements with anything substantial.


Good Luck,


MM

Absolutely correct. Blunt and to the point.

[SIUYA]

consistent profits, no drawdowns, no risk.
thank you Bernie Madoff

There will always be ponzi schemes ready to take the money of people.

slightly off topic..........
MMS - you just talked about not only the desires/greed of retail investors but those of many institutional investors also. I would like to meet one large money manager who privately really loves his clients. Its probably the one biggest complaint - that people dont understand or want to understand what trading entails and what turns out to be good results.

eg; 2009-2010 many funds have had good returns, but these same funds are flat to down over 2007-2010. Yet if a fund was up over the 2007-2010 period but underperformed in 2009-2010 compared to others they get criticized......go figure.
Marketing is king when it comes to OPM.

[cunparis]

Linda Raschke said that about 2 years is the point where those who are still in the game (haven't lost all their money or haven't given up) tend to make it. Was true for me, I became profitable around the 2 year mark.

So giving up after 1.5 years.. in my opinion it's not enough time. but a family to support is a big burden in learning to trade.