[srag&birdie2]

Originally Posted by Kiwi »

Taking Thales point above into account, Snag, please don't take this as an attack on your or your intelligence.

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You can attack my intelligence, if you like. It's OK with me.

Originally Posted by Kiwi »

I am a very organized trader. But I am not a disciplined trader in the face of risk and emotional distortions that result. Hence, although I can read the markets better than I can systematize them, my lack of really good discipline under monetary risk means that I am probably better of systematizing my ideas and auto-executing them.

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I would bet that you have not been organized or disciplined in addressing the emotional side of trading - You refer to Mark Douglas and this is one of his main points - it's not enough to spend all or most of your time on the technical side; as much and maybe more is needed here. If this be true, then I would say your effort has fallen short of a well-organized and discplined approach to trading and could be improved with practice.

Originally Posted by Kiwi »

Similarly, my friend lives in a messy house and is bloody disorganized. He doesn't have a written trading plan and he turns up at the trading desk when he feels like it. He leaves on the same basis. He changes styles without "proper" research. But he is very disciplined under monetary risk in the sense that Mark Douglas means (operating without fear or greed). His breathing rate goes up etc but he doesn't let fear or greed change his approach - he does the same thing he'd do on paper or with twice the risk. He is very disciplined and as a result he is consistently profitable. But he is also totally xxxxing disorganized.

If you see what I mean?

To me, finding examples that break the rule doesn't really prove the point. Frankly, I think it more of a 'trick' the ego plays to avoid what it doesn't want to do. Take the hard task of quitting cigarrettes as example. Here's the kind of excuse the ego gives: Pablo Picasso smoked 40 nails a day and lived into his 90s, so I should be able to ignore health risks, too. Bullocks.

Your friend may appear consistent, but how much better of a trader would he be if really disciplined? Discipline is very hard work. Few want to do it. We make up all kinds of stories to avoid the work and feel good about it. Some person said above that athletes have natural abilities and this is why most aren't champs in sport. I'm sure that makes the ego feel good, but, sorry, not true. Hard work, mate. Little more. Practice and more practice - never ending practice (simulation) with the committment that no matter what, they will strive to be better than yesterday. Talent has little to do with that.

Cheers to your thoughtful response

[hedonQ]

I can't speak for anybody but myself. If can move back in time this is what I would do:

The greatest challenge is the path you choose to follow. I tried scalping, news trading,
technical indicators, candle stick patterns and price action. The greatest waste of
time were indicators. I settled on PA, I do ok.
You find your own true calling, research it and see if is good for "you". Stick to it, perfect it.

You need to know what it takes to succeed in this business.
Ask yourself, what is it that successful traders do to succeed? Make a list
and do it. (Read SMB capital blog, find out what they do)
Trading might be glorified, and cool to talk about and calling yourself a trader.
But it will take lot of grid and thick skin to get to a place where most people
will never get.

Books:
Don't buy any books about "How to make million dollars in 3 weeks" or "Secret Sauce in FX markets".
Don't buy any trading system.
I read lot of books on trading, the majority are informative but they will not teach you
how to make money. They only make money to those who write them.
Trading forums seem to be very efficient aiding in learning curve. Try the Wyckoff Forum.
Buy books dealing with psychology. I found Brett Steenbarger useful.


Sim trading:
I'd say what's important with sim is to "experience" the price action that tests your methodology.
If trading real account from get-go, even small one, you might not pull the trigger when
money is on the line. You will not "see" what works and what does not. You will not
make adjustments. You should keep sim trading until consistency emerges.
It might be that you focus on the methodology first .... than the rest.


Being a trader is a privilege. A profession that can take you from rags to riches.


Good Luck.

[nooby]

Respect your views and still too raw to comment on it.

But one thing i have observed in myself is that when it comes to sim trading the emotions dont come into play. I tried a method on paper first and worked fine (a short time though) and then when i traded with money it went all haywire and i made a lot of mistakes even when aware i was making them.

Maybe i didnt sim trade long enough or just the wrong turn in market...

[edabreu]

Originally Posted by nooby »

Respect your views and still too raw to comment on it.

But one thing i have observed in myself is that when it comes to sim trading the emotions dont come into play. I tried a method on paper first and worked fine (a short time though) and then when i traded with money it went all haywire and i made a lot of mistakes even when aware i was making them.

Maybe i didnt sim trade long enough or just the wrong turn in market...

Within this forum is something called "the Acid Test"
In order to pass that test many of your trading actions are going to have to be correct.
Sim can not duplicate the emotional content of cash trading, but if you shift your focus to performance based, then you can get a good idea of how you are doing technically, and money management wise, whether your method matches your personality, and quite a few important issues that can be dealt with without risking your real cash.
Keeping a detailed journal for the test is extremely important also. The ability to control yourself while trading is impossible if you do not recognize yourself while trading.

If you cannot pass the test...well then you need to find out why. So, keep that journal as precise and comprehensive as possible. It may be the best way to understand that person who is actually doing the trading.