[DbPhoenix]

By posting here, I didn't intend to get into a debate on the pertinence or quality of any given book or books, and while I appreciate the remarks made about my own book and about the thread mentioned by thales, I still don't know anything about "minted" nor about what he knows nor about his level of experience, if any.

So, I'll copy here a little of what I've posted in my blog with regard to first steps. Perhaps that will be of benefit to him:

In order to succeed at trading, you must have an edge. Your edge begins with the knowledge you gain through your research and testing that a particular price pattern or market behavior offers a level of predictability and a risk to reward ratio that provides a consistently profitable outcome over time. Without it, one is just "playing" the market in order to have something to talk about on message boards. To get it, you have to know exactly what you're looking for and what to do with it once you've found it. This process is what the journal is all about.

The journal goes through several stages depending on where you are. Once you've decided where you want to concentrate your efforts (at this level, the journal may resemble a diary), then you begin the process of developing a system (or method, strategy, procedure, whatever you want to call it). Here the journal takes on a different character. Once you've developed a tentative/preliminary system, you begin testing/trading it, and the journal adopts a still different character.

The first step is to decide what kind of trader you want to be.

* What do you want to accomplish with your trading? Is it recreational? Supplementary income? A part-time job? Do you want to make a living at it? Even the greenest of the green knows whether or not he wants to make a living at it, trade only part time, trade for recreation, trade for the action, trade to have something to talk about with other traders (for whatever reason), trade only long enough to earn money to do or buy X.

* Do you have any idea what sort of trading is most comfortable? Long or intermediate-term trading? Short-term trading? Day-trading? Trend-trading? Scalping? (Note here that a short-term trader, for example, does not become a long-term trader just because his stop was hit and he didn't sell; a long-term trader doesn't become a short-term trader because he chickened out and sold too soon. Each of these approaches are selected deliberately and for thoroughly-considered reasons.) How patient are you? How adventurous? Are you a leader or a follower (most people think they're leaders)?


The second step is to decide what you're going to trade and when you're going to trade it.

* Have you found an instrument -- futures, stocks, ETFs, bonds, options -- that provides you with the range and volatility you require but also the safety that enables you to relax and trade in an objective and rational manner?

* Have you yet found a time (5m, hourly, weekly) or tick (1t, 200t) or volume (1K, 100K) interval that gives you enough trading opportunities but also gives you enough time to think about what you're doing? If you want to limit your trading to the "morning", are you physically and psychologically prepared to trade all day? If not, can you shrug off whatever opportunities you may miss by limiting the amount of time you spend trading?

The third step is to develop your system*.

A system consists of (a) a set of rules that you use to select profitable positions and (b) a set of rules that you use to manage the trade once you're in it. (*Note: again, whether you call it a system, a method, a strategy, a plan, a scheme, an approach, a procedure, or a modus operandi is not as important as sitting down and doing it.)

And so on. If one cannot answer even the most preliminary questions, then he needs to address those preliminary questions. If he doesn't do it now, he'll have to do it eventually, but by then he will likely have wasted a considerable amount of money.

[HAL9000]

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

I still don't know anything about "minted" nor about what he knows nor about his level of experience, if any.

DB,

I don't know too,

but I hope that you, the OP (and as well beginners) understand my point.

I too, would advice them to read your posts and your blog in here at TL.

I have ignored the basic things like S/R and trendlines for a long time.
More working on just indicators. So now for me it seems to be the combination of both worlds.

No need for a discussion on my side too.

Regarding websites, etc.

Website: TL is it, some others are mentioned here.

Tools: There are tons of it here.

So what is it finally?

Make your decision, build your plan.

Livermore was 14, he saw pictures, he saw his edge,
and then he went real ...

He started his journey!


Hal

P.S.: PEACE

[MINTED]

Hi Hal (and others who kindly posted replies)

Hal, are you saying that xxxx for Dummies and other such "food", are worth reading OR not?

As for the others who asked.........I am a complete trading Virgin. I am lucky enough to have time on my hands, as my good lady wife works. I want to trade short term (one day upwards). I want to make it a full-time "project", with a view to making an income...... (target $50,000 a year, to begin)

As far a books etc....it seems in even the small replies so far, most have mentioned the so called "classics", whilst others have mentioned ones, I never heard of. A case of, "ask a 100 people" and get 100 different answers.

The book that is difficult to find.....is it the same as "The Day Trader's Bible - Or My Secret In Day Trading Of Stock" ??

Again thanks guys / girls......I want the popping of my cherry, to be memorable....not just a quick fumble!!

[atto]

I'd stay away from extremely elementary books (For Dummies, etc), but that's just me. I think Dbphoenix's book gives a wonderful intro to markets, personally.

Originally Posted by MINTED »

The book that is difficult to find.....is it the same as "The Day Trader's Bible - Or My Secret In Day Trading Of Stock" ??

No, but that's a good place to start. Anything you can find by Wyckoff is good (and we have our very own Wyckoff Forum here devoted to his original stuff).

[HAL9000]

Originally Posted by MINTED »

Hal, are you saying that xxxx for Dummies and other such "food", are worth reading OR not?

Hi Minted,

My message is the following:

I think Reminiscences is a good start.
You understand many things after reading it.

It doesn't makes you a good trader just by reading, but you will understand what happens.
It was a long time ago, when it was written, and it is still the same.

The xxx for dummies explain the easy things, well, and for a virgin,
they might be right, but from my experience, the xxx for dummies haven't explained me what "shorting" is. I was naive, I was right before in the bull run, but I couldn't see the danger coming from this side.

In result, I lost (very) much some years ago, simply because I haven't read my recommendation.

In my country shorting wasn't known for "ordinary" people
like me, who read xxx for dummies. I have been naive. Nothing else.

Again, my message is read Reminiscences, read the other recs you get here (i.e. from atto, from thales), if you don't understand something in these books, ask here, or use xxx for dummies,

but don't trade just based on xxx for dummies.

I made my mistakes in the past, and I will make new ones,
but guess what, you will understand, what is said in Reminiscences.


Hal

[thalestrader]

Originally Posted by HAL9000 »

if you don't understand something in these books, ask here, or use xxx for dummies

Barbara Rockefeller's Technical Analysis for Dummies is actually quite good, but then again, she has the experience and the intelligence to pull it off.

As for XXX for Dummies, I think that work ought to be discussed in another "type" of forum entirely.

Best Wishes,

Thales

[thalestrader]

Originally Posted by MINTED »

I want to make it a full-time "project", with a view to making an income...... (target $50,000 a year, to begin)

Target making a profit. You will never make an income from trading. You will either net a profit or net a loss. If you net a profit, by all means, draw some of those profits to meet you a portion or even all of your living expenses. But if you are looking for income, you will likely never even attain marginal profitability.

Best Wishes,

Thales

[HAL9000]

Originally Posted by thalestrader »

Barbara Rockefeller's Technical Analysis for Dummies is actually quite good

Hi Thales,

I have have no doubt about it.
And I think we don't need another thread or forum about this.

Just to make my use of xxx for dummies a little bit clearer.

It is not about the title of a book.


Its just about all these books like,

- I am a big speculator, do it like me.
(Or in other words: buy my books, my last trades have failed!)

- How to make your retirement with investments.
(Or like my government likes to say: Your pension is save! IMO: Naive or more than that!)

- Sometimes I trade, but more often I sell indicators and more to innocent newbies.

...

You understand!


Its not in the words.

Its more about, there are tons of books, but aren't just 5 enough?

What is message and helpful, and what are just books of traders that never traded?


Regards,

Hal