[edabreu]

After more than 5 years full time trading, and about 100 trade rooms later I have a few thoughts about how to save yourself a bundle of headaches and heartaches, and maybe a few buck as you search for a trade room.
First question is why do you need a trade room? Simple answer is that in the beginning it can help you get through some of the learning curve, and you have a place for some some sympathetic response and support for your trading woes. Complicated answer is you really need guidance but cannot afford a 1 on 1 mentorship.

A good trade room should help you make money while you learn. Unfortunately, with 100's of methods and as many trade rooms out there, how can you wade through the junk and concentrate on the better one's?
I have a few criteria that I think are an absolute must for a real trade room where your chances of succeeding and MAKING MONEY WHILE LEARNING are high.
Number one - You must be able to see the moderating traders charts in real time.
Number two - You must be able to see the trades entered in real time either through the moderators order dom, or chart trader or some method where it is apparent that the trade was entered, filled, and managed.
Number three - You must be able to follow the trades, or at least most of them. This issues gets a bit difficult in a fast market and may need some adjusting.
To my mind there are three basic types of trading rooms. One is where it's just pure trading, minimal instruction. The other is where the education has more emphasis, and trading takes a back seat...hence few trades.
The third is a hybrid; a steady stream of trading towards a set room goal, some Q&A once the daily goal is met, and a scheduled series of ongoing educational sessions in addition to the room's daily trading.
So, first you need to decide which is right for you.
Here's a tip. If you are considering a trading education in a particular trading method because you have none of your own, then look for the education emphasis. Otherwise, if you have a few good setups you know, and
have some of your trading education already underway, then look for a trading room that will add to your knowledge, and help you make money as you learn their methods and tools. If, however, you have traded a bit
and have some tools and know some setups and yet nothing is working or going well for you, then look to the hybrid.

Regardless, remember the #1, #2 and #3 rule. DO NOT SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS. If a person hangs out their shingle and asks for your money in return for a service, then you better make sure that service is to your liking. If you are unable to see the trade moderators charts and his trade entries then pass that place up. It may be a good place, it may not.
But without the visual verifiable evidence you will find yourself not only having to watch your own chart, but also having to compile in your head what is happening, and keep that picture going along with all the other pressures of trading. I do not care what excuse is given...there is no excuse for not showing real time moderating trades taken in real time. Technology is not an issue, money cannot possibly be the issue, so it must be something else? Let's see...fear, exposure, stop fluffing, doubling up or bad trading habits or what? You tell me.
So, there is the absolute newbie (and it's going to be painful) who really needs a lot of luck to avoid the garbage rooms and there is the trader who is just looking to improve and there is the trader who really needs a better set of tools and methods to get him out of his funk.
So if you have found a room then the best way to research the room is to spend a few weeks just listening and watching. We are conditioned for immediate response syndrome, instant gratification syndrome and these are detremental to your trading health. We can probably all agree on that. If you do take the time to watch and listen, then keep a notebook and write down every trade call, the time and the particulars...targets hit, stops etc. and review it after market while looking at your own chart. Don't even look at your own chart while doing the assessment. Concentrate on what's going on in the room because if you decide on that room you are going to have to do the next very important thing to get the most out of the room. That is to trust the trading moderator and his trade calls. Why? Because you want to be able to make money while you learn. So your next task is to see if the room makes sense to you. Can you follow the logic of the trade moderator. If he is a really good trader, he may be a lousy moderator and vis versa. So you need to know that before you join. Look for verifiable results. Verifiable results are the trade records 1st hand...not some spreadsheet made up afterwards, or some list of trades posted in a chat window (even if in real time). In Ninja it's pretty easy. Look for the trade list records unadulterated right out of Ninja. Look for the summery records. I have heard a lot of traders complain that sim doesn't count. Well, I think that is wrong thinking. What you need to see is the trade time of entry, the target completion and the stop. Add a tick of slippage in one direction, if you like, to the trade and see what it looks like. Often, a moderator will move to sim if he has hit his daily goal. The better moderators are not at all shy about letting you know they have moved to sim. I think it very unreasonable of traders who insist that a moderator continue to endlessly trade throughout the day without some kind of stopping criteria. The concepts of over trading, pointless trading, mental fatigue, and plain stupidity come to mind if anyone thinks that trading without some kind of daily goal or quota is going to make you a better trader. On the contrary. So why should a moderator who trades his own money be forced to practice bad trading habits just because you as a member may have strolled into the trade room at 10:56 a.m. and want a winning trade. Well, guess what. By 10:56 a.m. most good traders are done for the day! So, once the daily goal is hit and if the moderator is any good, then you should not have any problems with his moving to sim. What's important is does he continue to call winning trades? Do the tools continue to give high probability setups? Can you see his trades?

So, now you have a room you think is going to work for you. You took the trial, you signed up for 1 month. BTW, Do not accept a room where you are required to sign up for a longer specified term...this is bs. If the room is a good room then there should exist the confidence that you will be so pleased and satisfied that you will return of your own desire.
Now, remember the part about trusting the moderators trading? This is where it is important that you accept that fact and live with it. You are not going to catch every trade call...no matter what room you are in. Its just the way it is. Hesitation, you coughed just as the trade was called, a bug distracted you...whatever...its going to happen that you will miss a couple. So, the bottom line is that to get the most out of any trade room AFTER you have done your homework and decided, is to take every room trade period.

You homework should already have told you the performance expectation, the style of the rooms moderating trader, the basic methodology and trade setup rules, etc. Your job now is to learn the method and the setups in great detail, practice them under guidance, and make money while you learn.
I have been in some pretty crappy rooms (now I know they were crappy) and some pretty decent rooms (of course these are the one's I abandoned because i did not have my own act together). Currently I do not need a
trade room. If you are at that point then congratulations! If not, then even if you join any trade room, remember to look forward to the day when you can graduate and trade independently, consistently successfully, and live off the profits of your hard earned accomplishment.

[zdo]

Good post. Excellent rules
Some other thoughts
You will have a high probability of being attracted to a room where it turns out the moderator has the same trading issues and deficits as you… so learn from that too.
Dig deep fast. Bust your butt learning the methodology fast.
Ask really tough questions from day one. So tough the moderator will threaten to fire you…

Disclaimer re my actual trading room experience: In my 20+ years of trading, I have only been in one trading room for three weeks. I learned a lot quickly. I did get fired. All done with that.

The way to get the most out of a trading room is to get out of the trading room

[edabreu]

Originally Posted by zdo »

Good post. Excellent rules
Some other thoughts
You will have a high probability of being attracted to a room where it turns out the moderator has the same trading issues and deficits as you… so learn from that too.
Dig deep fast. Bust your butt learning the methodology fast.
Ask really tough questions from day one. So tough the moderator will threaten to fire you…

Disclaimer re my actual trading room experience: In my 20+ years of trading, I have only been in one trading room for three weeks. I learned a lot quickly. I did get fired. All done with that.

The way to get the most out of a trading room is to get out of the trading room

Yup...I got fired once too. Beware if the moderator tells you that the answer will cost you an additional $5k bucks! Good trading coaches will give you their email and let you pick their brains... Not everything you learn is going to be immediately useful. So, store some things away for a future time and concentrate on the things you need to know right now to NOT LOSE money and to make money. Add more setups slowly over time. You only need 1 or 2 high probability setups in the beginning to make money, but you absolutely must know immediately how to not lose money.

[timgallaway]

Originally Posted by edabreu »

After more than 5 years full time trading, and about 100 trade rooms later I have a few thoughts about how to save yourself a bundle of headaches and heartaches, and maybe a few buck as you search for a trade room.
First question is why do you need a trade room? Simple answer is that in the beginning it can help you get through some of the learning curve, and you have a place for some some sympathetic response and support for your trading woes. Complicated answer is you really need guidance but cannot afford a 1 on 1 mentorship.

A good trade room should help you make money while you learn. Unfortunately, with 100's of methods and as many trade rooms out there, how can you wade through the junk and concentrate on the better one's?
I have a few criteria that I think are an absolute must for a real trade room where your chances of succeeding and MAKING MONEY WHILE LEARNING are high.
Number one - You must be able to see the moderating traders charts in real time.
Number two - You must be able to see the trades entered in real time either through the moderators order dom, or chart trader or some method where it is apparent that the trade was entered, filled, and managed.
Number three - You must be able to follow the trades, or at least most of them. This issues gets a bit difficult in a fast market and may need some adjusting.
To my mind there are three basic types of trading rooms. One is where it's just pure trading, minimal instruction. The other is where the education has more emphasis, and trading takes a back seat...hence few trades.
The third is a hybrid; a steady stream of trading towards a set room goal, some Q&A once the daily goal is met, and a scheduled series of ongoing educational sessions in addition to the room's daily trading.
So, first you need to decide which is right for you.
Here's a tip. If you are considering a trading education in a particular trading method because you have none of your own, then look for the education emphasis. Otherwise, if you have a few good setups you know, and
have some of your trading education already underway, then look for a trading room that will add to your knowledge, and help you make money as you learn their methods and tools. If, however, you have traded a bit
and have some tools and know some setups and yet nothing is working or going well for you, then look to the hybrid.

Regardless, remember the #1, #2 and #3 rule. DO NOT SETTLE FOR ANYTHING LESS. If a person hangs out their shingle and asks for your money in return for a service, then you better make sure that service is to your liking. If you are unable to see the trade moderators charts and his trade entries then pass that place up. It may be a good place, it may not.
But without the visual verifiable evidence you will find yourself not only having to watch your own chart, but also having to compile in your head what is happening, and keep that picture going along with all the other pressures of trading. I do not care what excuse is given...there is no excuse for not showing real time moderating trades taken in real time. Technology is not an issue, money cannot possibly be the issue, so it must be something else? Let's see...fear, exposure, stop fluffing, doubling up or bad trading habits or what? You tell me.
So, there is the absolute newbie (and it's going to be painful) who really needs a lot of luck to avoid the garbage rooms and there is the trader who is just looking to improve and there is the trader who really needs a better set of tools and methods to get him out of his funk.
So if you have found a room then the best way to research the room is to spend a few weeks just listening and watching. We are conditioned for immediate response syndrome, instant gratification syndrome and these are detremental to your trading health. We can probably all agree on that. If you do take the time to watch and listen, then keep a notebook and write down every trade call, the time and the particulars...targets hit, stops etc. and review it after market while looking at your own chart. Don't even look at your own chart while doing the assessment. Concentrate on what's going on in the room because if you decide on that room you are going to have to do the next very important thing to get the most out of the room. That is to trust the trading moderator and his trade calls. Why? Because you want to be able to make money while you learn. So your next task is to see if the room makes sense to you. Can you follow the logic of the trade moderator. If he is a really good trader, he may be a lousy moderator and vis versa. So you need to know that before you join. Look for verifiable results. Verifiable results are the trade records 1st hand...not some spreadsheet made up afterwards, or some list of trades posted in a chat window (even if in real time). In Ninja it's pretty easy. Look for the trade list records unadulterated right out of Ninja. Look for the summery records. I have heard a lot of traders complain that sim doesn't count. Well, I think that is wrong thinking. What you need to see is the trade time of entry, the target completion and the stop. Add a tick of slippage in one direction, if you like, to the trade and see what it looks like. Often, a moderator will move to sim if he has hit his daily goal. The better moderators are not at all shy about letting you know they have moved to sim. I think it very unreasonable of traders who insist that a moderator continue to endlessly trade throughout the day without some kind of stopping criteria. The concepts of over trading, pointless trading, mental fatigue, and plain stupidity come to mind if anyone thinks that trading without some kind of daily goal or quota is going to make you a better trader. On the contrary. So why should a moderator who trades his own money be forced to practice bad trading habits just because you as a member may have strolled into the trade room at 10:56 a.m. and want a winning trade. Well, guess what. By 10:56 a.m. most good traders are done for the day! So, once the daily goal is hit and if the moderator is any good, then you should not have any problems with his moving to sim. What's important is does he continue to call winning trades? Do the tools continue to give high probability setups? Can you see his trades?

So, now you have a room you think is going to work for you. You took the trial, you signed up for 1 month. BTW, Do not accept a room where you are required to sign up for a longer specified term...this is bs. If the room is a good room then there should exist the confidence that you will be so pleased and satisfied that you will return of your own desire.
Now, remember the part about trusting the moderators trading? This is where it is important that you accept that fact and live with it. You are not going to catch every trade call...no matter what room you are in. Its just the way it is. Hesitation, you coughed just as the trade was called, a bug distracted you...whatever...its going to happen that you will miss a couple. So, the bottom line is that to get the most out of any trade room AFTER you have done your homework and decided, is to take every room trade period.

You homework should already have told you the performance expectation, the style of the rooms moderating trader, the basic methodology and trade setup rules, etc. Your job now is to learn the method and the setups in great detail, practice them under guidance, and make money while you learn.
I have been in some pretty crappy rooms (now I know they were crappy) and some pretty decent rooms (of course these are the one's I abandoned because i did not have my own act together). Currently I do not need a
trade room. If you are at that point then congratulations! If not, then even if you join any trade room, remember to look forward to the day when you can graduate and trade independently, consistently successfully, and live off the profits of your hard earned accomplishment.

Can you please recommend some because I'm gonna go broke trying to find a legit trading room!!!! Thank you.

[DbPhoenix]

Originally Posted by timgallaway »

Can you please recommend some because I'm gonna go broke trying to find a legit trading room!!!! Thank you.

If you're concerned about "going broke" before you're on the road to profitability, study this companion post as well.

[timgallaway]

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

If you're concerned about "going broke" before you're on the road to profitability, study this companion post as well.

Thanks Db, good stuff.

[DbPhoenix]

Originally Posted by timgallaway »

Thanks Db, good stuff.

Glad to help........

[timgallaway]

I'm looking for a mentor or a trading room with an educational bias. I've joined several that after a few weeks it was obvious that I can be just as successful as they are on my own with basic charting setups (ie EMA and SMA, stochs and MaCD).

I need help. I've read so much online literature over the past 4 months my eyes are about to pop out.