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Trading Psychology How do we learn to conquer our fear and greed? Discuss the mental aspects of the game.


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Old 04-11-2008, 08:36 AM
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This member is the original thread starter. Re: Zen and the Art of Poker

RULE #14: The long run is longer than you think... Playing only the best hands can be frustrating... Anger and irritability can arise. The emotions can be severely tested. This is where Zen comes in.

The only way to turn the corner is to get rid of marginal trades. It is ALREADY a very fine balance. If one injects a few marginal trades into the picture, he quickly screws up the Profit/Loss equation. Making the matter worse, doing so will create chaos in both one’s equity curve and one’s head. Just get rid of marginal trades, don't stare at the monitor the whole day, and learn to maximize profits WHEN appropriate.

If we fail to take the responsibility for getting rid of marginal trades, we lose the privilege to trade. Provided one does have a good method, it’s meaningless to try to fix things any other way.

Trade LESS, make more. (William)

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2008, 09:58 AM
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Re: Zen and the Art of Poker

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Trade LESS, make more.
Oh so true.

Even more so is the related corollary:

"Fast charts, more trades, less money. Slow charts, less trades, more money."

Or something like that....

-fs

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Old 04-12-2008, 10:26 AM
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This member is the original thread starter. Re: Zen and the Art of Poker

RULE#15: When you take your emotions out of the game, other players' emotions become visible.

When we are focused exclusively on our own emotions (as we often are), the emotions of others tend to be obscured. When we make ourselves neutral, however, we find that the canvas suddenly becomes blank and the emotions of others begin to appear.


You can't be "good" by pushing away "bad". If anger arises, instead of getting involved with the content of the thought, rest in the awareness of it. The angry thought dissolves, and a clone arises. Rest in the awareness again. Don't fight the thought or get involved. Give it enough space and it will dissolve. (William)

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Old 04-13-2008, 10:00 AM
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This member is the original thread starter. Re: Zen and the Art of Poker

RULE#16: Be wary of pushing forward aggressively when encountering resistance.

This goes along with the concept of non-coercive trading. You don't fight the situation. The cheetah waits only for the weak prey even though it is capable of catching any animal.

Besides external conditions, it is also important to be aware of the internal conditions such as H.A.L.T. (Hungry, Angry, Lonely, Tired).

So why does one press it? Because one wants perfection, and perfection loses. One has to let go of his agenda and listen to the market. You should know by now that I believe a "natural" trader is the best trader and in order to be a "natural" trader, one CANNOT be the "perfect" trader.

For all beginner traders like me, if one truly truly thinks it through and gets this point, it will stop the bleeding. The number of trades (including marginal trades) will go straight down significantly and the whole profit/loss equation will turn around. Only then will one have a fighting chance. (William)

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Old 04-14-2008, 02:33 AM
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Re: Zen and the Art of Poker

Zen and the Art of Poker is one of the best books on trading. It was a pleasure to read this collection of thoughts - I'll add one minor quatations from the book but isn't original and potentially thousands saving?

And remember to play your game right also when upset and out of Zen calmness because there is no reason a player can't be upset and yet at the same time play right

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Old 04-14-2008, 12:36 PM
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This member is the original thread starter. Re: Zen and the Art of Poker

RULE#17: Develop a true indifference to the game. George Leonard writes in Mastery that mastery's true face is often "relaxed and serene, sometimes faintly smiling." You sometimes see this with good poker players - a kind of smiling, ironic indifference to the vicissitudes of fate and the outcome of hands.

1. Under emotional distress, people shift toward favoring high-risk, high payoff options, even if these are objectively poor choices. This appears based on a failure to think things through.

2. When self-esteem is threatened, people become upset and lose their capacity to regulate themselves. In particular, people who hold a high opinion of themselves often get quite upset in response to a blow to pride, and the rush to prove something great about themselves overrides their normal rational way of dealing with life.

3. Self-regulation is required for many forms of self-interest behavior. When self-regulation fails, people may become self-defeating in various ways, such as taking immediate pleasures instead of delayed rewards. Self-regulation appears to depend on limited resources that operate like strength or energy, and so people can only regulate themselves to a limited extent.

4. Making choices and decisions depletes this same resource. Once the resource is depleted, such as after making a series of important decisions, the self becomes tired and depleted, and its subsequent decisions may well be costly or foolish. (Baumeister)

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Old 04-15-2008, 04:14 AM
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Re: Zen and the Art of Poker

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RULE#16: Be wary of pushing forward aggressively when encountering resistance.

For all beginner traders like me... (William)
I remember how much I enjoyed the original thread when it appeared, and it's great to be reminded of the wisdom of these "rules". If I recall correctly, William was interested in Zen in its own right, and I'm struck by his comment here that he is a "beginner trader". I believe that it is a precept of Zen to be "always a beginner", always open to learning more. Given the quality of his comments, I wouldn't be surprised if he was an experienced trader, and -- if he took his own advice at least -- a successful one.

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Old 04-15-2008, 08:38 AM
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Re: Zen and the Art of Poker

Great thread DB. I haven't read it yet but Zen and the Art of Poker is next on the must read list. Thanks for the great posts and rules.

Regards,

Jay

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Old 04-15-2008, 08:49 AM
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Re: Zen and the Art of Poker

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Great thread DB. I haven't read it yet but Zen and the Art of Poker is next on the must read list. Thanks for the great posts and rules.

Regards,

Jay
LINK TO AMAZON

Jay - that link will take you to Amazon if you'd like to purchase there. Took me a bit to find it, so I copied the link here for anyone interested. Saves a little time b/c Amazon isn't the easiest site to navigate sometimes.

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Old 04-15-2008, 09:36 AM
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This member is the original thread starter. Re: Zen and the Art of Poker

RULE#18: Learn from your mistakes... When we factor past lessons in for future play, losses are not losses, but rather stepping-stones toward future correct play. Failure, by its nature, moves us in another direction, away from failure. We need to treat these lessons neutrally. Simply learn from them. Don't take them too much to heart or put too much emotion into them.

# Make journals a part of the daily routine. Even if you don’t trade on a particular day, it is valuable to review the day’s setups and behavior at key price levels. Reviewing patterns on different time frames can also help traders internalize the context of the markets they are trading, as well as the interrelationships among those markets. The French scientist Louis Pasteur observed that, in matters of observation, “chance only favors prepared minds”. Replaying market days, reviewing your own performance, and identifying missed opportunities prepares you for future performance, as your increasing familiarity with trading patterns sensitizes you to them in real time (while static charts are better than nothing, they do not capture the unfolding of patterns, the very thing that traders need to be able to recognize and act upon; replay provides the opportunity to see patterns over and over again, accelerating the recognition process).

# Incorporate specifics in your journals. If I had to identify the single most common shortcoming among trading journals, it would be their absence of detail. Entries such as, “I lost my discipline; I have to be more patient,” might be nice as post-it reminders, but are inadequate as journal entries. Journals need to clearly state what happened, your assessment of why it happened, and the specific steps you intend to take to deal with the situation in the future. A good rule is that anyone reading your journal should be able to identify and follow the exact same steps that you intend to take in the future. Your journal should be a planning document, not a statement of intentions. (Brett Steenbarger)


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