How best to fight the mental game...

[namstrader]

Totally agree with you Brownsfan019.

[walterw]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	OK, no offense doc, but I don't see any added value from your post vs. the other posts from the other traders here. Before I get chastised or anything, when I look to a professional 'trading doctor' I am looking for more than 'you must find your own way'. I specifically asked about how to train your brain to accept that you will not catch every move, take every tick, etc. That's a very specific question looking for a specific response. I think you'll find that the most active of us on this board have been given the 'find your inner trader' stuff. And I'm sure it looks good on brochures, books, etc. But if you really want to tap into this forum and provide value, I'm looking for more than this post, esp after 8 days since I first posed the question. Personally, I'm not impressed thus far. That may mean very little, but I think James should be aware of the overall impression we have. I would also suggest that James occasionally survey members when it comes to a vendor being on the board. It's a fine line to be a vendor on a message board and one that should be examined occasionally.

Brown.. I think she is not the only one that doesnt give specific information...

its very similar to some traders giving their final day stats about a black box method to the forum, what help can that add to the other technical trader fellows... ?


I think in a forum there are three type of active members :

1rst Collaboration... He gives and receives...

2nd Product Vendor... He makes publicity of his product (obviously will not show you entire product )

3rd Members with some inferiority complex, need to talk about their super performance but do not technically collaborate...

I think Doc is on the second group and obviously will not show entire product.. no sin... cheers Walter.

[cooter]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	I would also suggest that James occasionally survey members when it comes to a vendor being on the board. It's a fine line to be a vendor on a message board and one that should be examined occasionally.

I'm with you here.

I can name at least two other vendors who haven't lived up to expectations; indeed, I've received a few PMs for comments about one of them recently.

If a vendor isn't providing added value to forum members, above and beyond what might be ordinarily available elsewhere, then James really shouldn't bother having that vendor as a "partner" on the forum.

Just my two ticks worth....

[NihabaAshi]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	OK, no offense doc, but I don't see any added value from your post vs. the other posts from the other traders here. Before I get chastised or anything, when I look to a professional 'trading doctor' I am looking for more than 'you must find your own way'. I specifically asked about how to train your brain to accept that you will not catch every move, take every tick, etc. That's a very specific question looking for a specific response. I think you'll find that the most active of us on this board have been given the 'find your inner trader' stuff. And I'm sure it looks good on brochures, books, etc. But if you really want to tap into this forum and provide value, I'm looking for more than this post, esp after 8 days since I first posed the question. Personally, I'm not impressed thus far. That may mean very little, but I think James should be aware of the overall impression we have. I would also suggest that James occasionally survey members when it comes to a vendor being on the board. It's a fine line to be a vendor on a message board and one that should be examined occasionally.

I just want to jump in here to address to issues in which one concerns your questions and the other concerns a partner vendor of this discussion forum.

First of all, I read this thread with interest because to me it is a common problem concerning trade result expectations.

Here's your question again.

So my question is - how do you train your brain to accept your trades as they are? In other words, how do I train my brain to accept the fact that sometimes trades will continue to move in my direction after I've already exited a position?

In my opinion, you got your answer from others that have responded to you prior to Dr. Janice Dorn providing some insights.

This is how I train my brain to accept the fact that sometimes trades will continue to move in my direction after I've already exited a position.

Prior to entry, I have a trading plan mapped out from entry to exit just like any top athlete does.

For example, lets say a football coach ask the quarterback to throw the football to a specific player on a route about 5 yards to achieve a needed first down.

That quarterback has a task and the task is mapped out on the sidelines and in the huddle prior to the snap.

He's not ask to throw a touchdown nor a 30 yard pass...he has one specific task and that invovles getting a first down.

If that goal is achieved...top athletes rarely go back to the sidelines and say I could have gotten a bigger play via throwing a touch down.

Instead, they go back to the sidelines feeling good that they've accomplish th goal that was mapped out prior to the snap.

This is true for any sport or any other career professions.

Lets get back to trading.

If your a trader that's using fixed profit targets...you will have a difficult time in catching a big move via the flaws associated with fixed targets.

For example, you've conditioned yourself to believe exiting winners at +2 point profits while exiting losers at -1 point loss...

Your conditioning your brain to take action when either +2 point profit target is reach or when -1 point loss is reach.

Thus, its a waste of time to wonder about those 3 point, 5 point or bigger moves when your trading plan is conditioning your brain to take action at a less number.

Further, if your achieving the goals set by the map trading plan (getting those +2 point trades)...

Your achieving success and to ask for more or to question why you can't capture more is also saying your not satisfied with your trading plan or fear is involved when you reach your profit target on volatility.

I'll talk about the fear aspect a little.

Some traders get fear (shocked) when a profit target is reached on increased market activity.

It's fear that catches the trader off guard and then the conditioned brain kicks in and tells you "we don't have time to do additional analysis, dump the position now".

My point I'm trying to get at is that if you want to capture a bigger move on some trading days...

You need to improve your understanding off the markets so that you know when trends are most likely to occur.

Knowing that will allow you to map out your trade (condition your brain) prior to entry to go after a bigger target than the +2 point target.

Simply, a better understanding of the markets allows your brain to accept the fact that sometimes trades will continue to move in your direction after you've already exited the position.

In other words, your brain (you) will never accept the above facts about the markets until you develop a better understanding of the markets your trading.

A better understanding that lets you know its time to map out a touch down scenario, first down only or whatever.

With all that said, getting back to Dr. Janic Dorn...she's a partner vendor of this forum.

She's not going to offer to good stuff of her service for free.

Further, I thought her commentary was good in par with the other free advice you gotten at this discussion forum even though you obviously feel she didn't add any further insights.

Think about it, you already got your answer from others prior to her commentary and yet you were not satisfied enough in that you expected the partner vendor to provide further info beyond what others have already said.

Dr. Janic Dorn may have saw that not much added value can be made beyond what others have already said for free.

She's a partner vendor and if you need help with something that's beyond what others and I have already stated...you should visit her site to see if there's something she may offer that can help you.

If not, she'll probably be like most of us in that her advice is in par with the advice of others.

By the way, I played sports on the international level in the 80's and I could not have reached that level without the paid sports psychologist my parents had hired...whatever was given for free was basic common sense knowlege in comparison to the good stuff as in the stuff that cost my parents some bucks.

He had to spend a lot of time with me before he could properly help me.

Therefore, I can't imagine a trader psychologist or the likes being able to resolve what's bugging you about your trades in a few paragraphs nor without getting to know you better as a trader as in the stuff you don't talk about.

Further, if you say your question differently...it may shed more light when answered.

How do I accept the fact that I'm not satisfied with my trade results after I've exited (reached my goals for the trade) to only see the price action become more profitable had I not exited the trade???

Think about it...would you be asking this your question (my rephrase of your question) if the markets immediately reversed in the opposite direction after your exit or if you had a better understanding of what tends to cause a trend?

Is this a chronic problem in your trading in which you could have gotten more out of your trades...if not...why bother with this type of hindsight analysis.

Best Regards,
Mark
(a.k.a. NihabaAshi) Japanese Candlestick term

[brownsfan019]

	Quote:	walterw
	Brown.. I think she is not the only one that doesnt give specific information... its very similar to some traders giving their final day stats about a black box method to the forum, what help can that add to the other technical trader fellows... ?

Walter - difference is that I am not a vendor that is here to provide professional support. I am a trader like you. If I don't want to share my exact entry methods here, so be it. You've asked me repeatedly and what have I put on the board? Now you're just irritating me with this constant badgering. I don't see every trader here putting their exact entries and exits on the board. As a matter of fact, outside of me, you, pivot and a couple others, there really isn't much on the board outside of that.

Case in point:


Over THREE THOUSAND members, yet there's only a handful of us actually sharing stuff that is useful. So, sorry if my entire trading plan is not laid out on a silver platter here, but it looks like that is what is expected here actually - just piggyback off of others.

According to my brief math, it appears that approx .3% - .5% of the TL population actually contribute items of substance on a regular basis. That would mean that the handful of us that are actually providing ideas are supporting over 99% of the rest of the leaches on TL. Makes you wonder if it's even worth it.

If it's that much of a problem, forget about it. Have a mod close the thread. I don't care. The purpose of the thread was to not reveal my entire trading methodology for you or anyone. It was to share an idea, after all, I thought that's what we were here for. I presented an idea to consider and provided some real-time stats for me. Since that's obviously not enough, don't worry about it. No more stats will be posted.

------------

Sorry for posting this within this thread but I can't keep having Walter chase me around TL trying to get my entire trading plan laid out. Again, as soon as the rest of TL can step up to the plate, maybe I will too.

------------

Proceed with the topic on hand.

[walterw]

Sorry Brown, it wasnt my intention to irritate you, wont bother anymore... lol Walter.

[Happyguy]

Brown,
I agree with you that it is your right to share whatever amount of your trading methodology. From reading your posts, I think you have shared a lot with us already. Therefore, there is definitely no pressure for you to disclose any more details.

However, if you choose to share, I think it shoud be in the public forum areas for all interested members to see and learn.
I find it obnoxoius the suggestion by some member that you should only disclose your method in the 'premium members' sections only. Just think of this: if you want to donate some money to do some social good, you would not give the money to Bill Gate or Warren buffet, would you ?

Once again, you are doing a good job, Pleasse keep it up and i am sure that a lot of members will agree with me that we are learning heaps from your postings.

[PYenner]

Doc
Only you can say how much meat you want to put in a free sandwich.
Its for you to say.

[cooter]

	Quote:	Happyguy
	However, if you choose to share, I think it shoud be in the public forum areas for all interested members to see and learn. I find it obnoxoius the suggestion by some member that you should only disclose your method in the 'premium members' sections only.

I find obnoxious the naive suggestion that newbies, lurkers and trolls alike get treated on the same levels as those who have demonstrated a willingness to participate and interact for a sustained period here.

Why? Premium members are those who have contributed or posted the most to this board. Why should mere lurkers, with nothing to offer in return, gain the benefit and wisdom of our hard work and experience?

[thetradingdoctor]

I apologize to everyone that I do not know how to use this board well enough to realize that there has been all this discussion on this particular thread. I have been happily posting on the Altruistic Trader thread, completely oblivious to what has been written here! That is my error due to inexperience with this particular Forum. As soon as time permits, I will go through the posts on this thread and respond. Also, I would like it to be known that I have not received one penny in payment for being on this board, either from James or from any of you. I am attempting to impart some wisdom to you and the benefit of many years of experience in the markets and in life. I seriously don't like being called a "vendor." I am not taking any new coaching students as my plate is completely full right now and I have a long waiting list. I came here to share experience with you because James asked me and I liked what he was attempting to do. I will tell you more later and willl make some kind of a response to the posts on this thread. Thanks!

Janice