Coulda woulda shoulda

[thetradingdoctor]

Thank you, James. Your honesty and open attitude are wonderful!

There is a lot here to think about, but one thing stands out and I would like to know more about it. That incident where you were in role play and had an idiot judge. You walked out and something happened. You motivation went and has never been the same. I am trying to understand what happened at that time.

Right now, I am coaching a couple of traders who are relating similar situations to me--one involving sports and the other with a job interview. Both of these people have said the same thing to me, i.e., it was an idiot coach and an idiot boss. They still feel that thing deep inside of them, and it is holding them back from doing what they need to do with trading.

Please let me know as I think what is going on with you is a large part of that experience plus the whole thing with the divorce of your parents.

You are very courageous for sharing this, James, and I thank you!

Doctor Janice

[james_gsx]

I'm not really sure what happened, I didn't win I know that much. I felt like everyone back home expected me to win and so did my teacher. I felt as if all that work really wasn't worth anything. When I won in Colorado I kept everything very simple and easy to understand, when I went out to California I made a lot of the plan complex and even the power point was over the top.

But really I'm not sure what happened either, I just never had the motivation again. I guess I subconsciously gave up and felt I let myself down. But I really don't know.

[Future]

Hi james_gsx,

Reading through your threads, you seem to express a tone of motivation. I think there is alot of pontential in getting to where you want to be as a trader. However, I do think you are rushing a step too fast and perhaps it is affecting the way you trade? For example, do you find yourself taking setups that you would of not taken going back to your end of day analysis? In hindsight it sounds easy but do you ever catch yourself going..."why did I do that?". Or do you find yourself breaking more rules than you ideally want? Are you thinking in terms of $ when price upticks or downticks?

Have you considered being mentored or coached? This may significantly help you decrease that learning curve and learn a more slow and stable way of trading. I think what can help is trading maturity. And this can only come through experience and constantly improving to control your emotions. New traders tend to be easily controlled by their own emotions which lead to overtrading. What I like to call a more high probability trading style is sniper trading. Basically, you are looking for 1-3 high probability trades that captures good intraday swings. For YM trading, instead of having 5-10 setups a day each aiming for 20 pts... limit the setups to 1-3 aiming for minimum 30-40 pts. Once you can get a hang of it, you can easily start trading more aggresssively.

[james_gsx]

You know, I used to take trades and later sk myself why i did that. But since I started trading futures and learning the futures market I am doing this less and less. Now that I have a system that works with my personality I have not done that since, sure I make mistakes and things like that but I'm not ever taking anything that shouldn't have done.

I never look at the $ value for every trade, when I take a trade I'm immediately looking for an exit to lock in my gains. Before I used to hate when people told me to take small gains as they add up. But once I realized I'm a scalper then that all stuck, and now taking 5-10 YM every trade is no big deal as I know it will build up. Maybe twice a day I will check my updated P&L but I'm more concerned with the points rather than the dollar value. I couldn't say that about myself two months ago, I have come along way.

I would love a trading coach as I know I do things that I am unaware of, yet a coach could show me. I think it would greatly benefit me.

I know a time will come when I make mistakes and get emotional, it's bound to happen especially with my age and being new to the futures markets. But I can't be ignorant and believe it won't happen to me - I did that once before and it turned out to be very costly. I found one thing that really helps me is discussing my views on the market with other people. I tell them what I see and give them my reasoning, this helps me understand the market better and maybe see things I previously did not see before.

Thanks to all of you for helping out with this, it has bothered me for quite some time and I'm glad I'm getting it all out. I am on vacation right now so I won't be trading, but I will check back here and post on the forums. I purposefully left my laptop at home so I wouldn't be tempted to download E-Signal and try trading or watching the futures minute by minute. I need some time away. I sold all of my equity positions Friday soI will just watch the market and not act on it. I think this vacation will be great for me as I will be able to reflect on a lot of things. I'm visiting my sister and she's great at talking to me and helping me learn more about myself, so I plan on discussing this with her as well. Good trading to everyone and good luck this week.

[thetradingdoctor]

Good for you, James for taking time away. I think vacations should be mandatory for all traders. Trading can be among the most stressful of all professions. It's cool to take time with family and friends away from the sound and fury and put things into perspective. Just remember not to stay away too long, James, as I would love to hear about your progress as a trader and your life plan going forward. Thanks for opening up and sharing and I am thrilled that this has been of some small help to you!

Thanks!

Doctor Janice

[PYenner]

It is what we do in our spare time that defines who we really are and where we are going. The mundane habits that take over are the ones that tell you where the rest of your life is headed. Your established habits are your real lifeplan, the real you, the default you that will keep returning until you reject that personality.

Only you can save you from yourself, an adult sinks or swims or treads water as a matter of choice, a test of character.

You rated the purchase of your car on credit as an achievement.
There is no achievement in a credit purchase, that is self deception.
It is the car that you can afford to buy for cash that you should be rating your achievement by and that is the car you should be driving.

You may have fallen into a drawdown trap, you can't afford to trade, the risk of losses that go with trading become amplified when your equity is low and the pressure comes on and the fun goes out the window. Your ability to trade is related to your net worth, not to your credit rating.

[james_gsx]

I never rated the purchase of my car on credit as an achievement, sure I got a loan but that was not the achievement. The achievement was the emotional value that came with the car and finally having something of my own. There are pros and cons to financing the car, but thats not what this thread is about.

Again, this all comes down to a lack of motivation. I don't go back wondering what I did right or wrong, I don't fear losses because I may not be able to afford something, I don't get pressure because of "low equity". It's really rather simple, I just don't give a shit.

I had an interesting talk with my sister yesterday about this very thing and interestingly enough she went through a lot of the same stages I did. There are a lot of family issues that I'd rather not dive into yet, but thats always had a negative effect on myself and the divorce is one of them. But I find myself believing that I shouldn't be successful, and I have to come to a point in my life where I need take control. I need to decide for myself whether or not I want to sit back and watch life go by or really go after something 100%. I think after I go after something and overcome all the small obsticles then I'll feel much better about myself. I am notorious for going after something only to get halfway, get bored, and walk away. I've never truley accomplished something 100% except for that 1st place finish in DECA - but even then I've never considered it a true accomplishment because I didn't win at the national level. I always figured state would be a cakewalk. Maybe you see something here that I don't.

[torero]

	Quote:	james_gsx
	You know, I used to take trades and later sk myself why i did that. But since I started trading futures and learning the futures market I am doing this less and less. Now that I have a system that works with my personality I have not done that since, sure I make mistakes and things like that but I'm not ever taking anything that shouldn't have done.

Asking yourself why you took the trade is one every trader's mind when the trade went wrong, but only if it depends if you followed the trading plan or an impulsive trade. When you judged it as "why did I do that," it has to be in a proper context, or when you'll be judging from the perspective of win and loss and not good or bad execution on the trading plan. This is extremely important. I have 2 setups and I follow them, but there are days, the damn setups just don't pan out, but I have to keep in mind that they are setups of the trading plan, no questions asked.

[PYenner]

"I get frustrated that I'm not there yet. But when I start trading, I forget about everything it's just me and the markets. It's like when I used to play soccer, I forget about everything and focus on the game everything else is a blur."

That speaks volumes, brilliant.

"Maybe you see something here that I don't."

No, it was a total guess, looking for clues.

Nor is there anything necessarily wrong with changing your mind half way.
There are many goals that turn out to be not worth completing and you only see that as you get closer to them. Cutting your losses is then the sensible thing to do.

Coming second in my class was my preferred option, you come second in the state and one part of you says it should have been first in the national, another part says wtf good enough. I agree with the wtf good enough part.
That is healthy. Even Einstein didn't get where he wanted to go, wtf, be grateful for what does work while it still works coz we all end up senile anyway. wtf. Enjoy more and slave drive less.

Finding out what you do want is one of the tougher questions.
You have a darn good head on your shoulders, but that may not make things easier, it may make things harder, more complex, too much to balance.
Life does not offer many primo options, 2nd or 3rd best may have to be good enough, at least until something better does come up, which may happen once every 5 or 10 years and then only if you are on the lookout for that opportunity. It helps if you are doing something you like, or at least something you liked at the time you started doing it. Expectations and ambitions change with time, thats a good thing not a bad thing.

The defensive instinct that is bugging you may be about protecting you from impractical levels of expectation. A first prize is big, but a lifetime of ongoing progress is what we really depend on, a single success does not fill a lifetime.

You may find you get bored and frustrated with everything you become competent at (forget perfection) and find yourself looking for fresh challenges. If that is the case, accept it, understand it and expect it.
A-type achievers tend to be like that, flushing the john before they have finished peeing. Just grow your asset base along the way, opportunities tend to come in proportion.

[james_gsx]

Thanks PYenner, that post helps a lot.

I was writing in my journal tonight and came across a little self discovery. I currently have a feeling that has been digging through my chest for weeks, this feeling is far too common and it sucks. It's definitely a mix of depression and anxiety. I quickly looked back and analyzed where and how I first felt these symptoms, interestingly enough they are all linked.

In 9th grade my parents were getting divorced, for the first time in my life my grades were suffering. I went from an A student to a D/F student. I felt out of control, and ultimately failed my first class ever. I felt the same feeling then, and it was terrible. I often felt that way when my grades would drop, ultimately I had the feeling that I lost control and failed.

When I won first place at state for DECA that was a given, the real accomplishment was Nationals. Yet, I made it all so complex that just before the competition I had a similar feeling and felt out of control, and I failed.

My last relationship that actually meant something to me, and I had the same feeling the last few months we talked. Again, I found myself losing control of the situation and that lead to failure and we stopped talking. Right now, I feel as if my credit card debt is out of control. Is it really out of control? Not really, I make more in a month than all my credit card debt added together. In reality I could have it wiped out in less than a year. Yet for some reason, I feel as if it's out of control and that it will lead to financial failure.

But while writing in my journal I came across something that has never hit me like this before. The competition I won for DECA was e-commerce business plan, I am an entrepreneur at heart and I am pretty good at finding opportunities. While under the harshness of this current depression and anxiety I have found one of the greatest opportunities of my life. If I conquer this debt, then it will feel like the first major accomplishment of my entire life. The feeling will go away, as I will know that faced with the fear of failure I turned it into an opportunity for success. I can view it was a CFO walking into a troubled company and turning things around and making the company profitable.

After doing this I realized just how far off my current goals were. So I jotted down new goals and I plan on going over them while I'm still on vacation. I still have the feeling in my chest, but I'm excited to tackle the challenge ahead.

I have also decided to go back to school come next semester. I don't want to study anything related to finance, but something I will enjoy. I'm not going to lie, but this night of feeling like utter shit has turned into something big for me. I have never been this excited to go back to school.

The question and real challenge still stands, will I be able to go 100% and complete it, or will I stop halfway? I believe after finding one major root to my depression - the lack of control and fear of failure due to no control - that I can finally move on. It's like when you find a bad link your trading system and you correct it, thats how I feel. I will also keep writing in my journal and I'm going to go see a therapist. I can no longer ignore myself and the problems I've been facing for the last 6 years. I think I began a new chapter tonight and I thank all of you that have put input into this thread. This website has been a blessing in disguise. Tomorrow I will read this and most likely feel embarassed for putting it all out there, but what can you do?