[VSA] Volume Spread Analysis Part II

[Eiger]

Too bad this thread has once again been hijacked with the same old non-VSA pap. It is truely unfortunate, as I thought this thread was getting focused and becoming useful for VSA traders.

Why is it that those with their own threads and blogs insist on pressuring others who don't subscribe to their world view? What is it with you people? Your own personal threads and blogs aren't enough?! If I don't swear allegiance to your ideology you will keep trying to bully me into it? This is impoverished thinking and behavior. Please stop trying to drag this thread down to that level.

[DbPhoenix]

	Quote:	Eiger
	Too bad this thread has once again been hijacked with the same old non-VSA pap. It is truely unfortunate, as I thought this thread was getting focused and becoming useful for VSA traders. Why is it that those with their own threads and blogs insist on pressuring others who don't subscribe to their world view? What is it with you people? Your own personal threads and blogs aren't enough?! If I don't swear allegiance to your ideology you will keep trying to bully me into it? This is impoverished thinking and behavior. Please stop trying to drag this thread down to that level.

So there is to be no discussion of price action, candlesticks, or support/resistance? Perhaps some clarification is in order.

[Eiger]

	Quote:	DbPhoenix
	Wouldn't it be easier just to read the price action? ... you're "reading" the candle, not the price action, and therefore using the candles as indicators, divorced to a large extent from the price action itself ... ... [the] bar or candle, is not the thing ... ... If one finds it necessary to develop elaborate schemes for entry and exit and stop placement and so forth, it's likely that he's focusing on the representation and not the thing -- price action -- that's being represented, and the lists of rules grow ever longer.

Please don't try to reframe this; you cannot. You keep insisting that people here pledge alliegiance to your version of "price action," or "the thing," as you call it. VSA is all about reading bars--how it closes, whether it is an up or down bar, and the width of the spread. It is also concerned with the volume on those bars, and how this occurs in the context of the background. These bars, volume, and background are read to understand how large money is influencing the market.

On page 12 of The Undeclared Secrets That Drive the Stock Market Tom Williams says this about VSA methodology:

"The price spread is the range from the high to the low in the price bar. We look at this in regard to the spreads of the other bars preceding the one under investigation and those that follow. Is the spread abnormally wide, abnormally narrow, or just plain average and how much volume has accompanied it? Again, any spread taken in isolation means little. Like the volume, it is the relative spread we must always look at.

We will also use the close price to determing the direction of the spread. If the market has rallied strongly during the day and has closed near the highs of the day, we say we have a wide spread up closing on the highs. Conversely, we may have a narrow spread down compared to the previous day's spread. We also pay great attention to whether the bar is an up bar or a down bar."

You never discuss these VSA-related things.

VSA has absolutely nothing to do with your personal version of "price action." Nevertheless, you persistently attempt to disuade people from analyzing charts from a VSA perspective and insist that they focus on your personal version of "price action," or "the thing," as you call it. You do this with virtually every post you make to this thread. Talk about this stuff on your personal blog; here it is quite off topic. Please stop.

[brownsfan019]

	Quote:	Eiger
	Too bad this thread has once again been hijacked with the same old non-VSA pap. It is truely unfortunate, as I thought this thread was getting focused and becoming useful for VSA traders. Why is it that those with their own threads and blogs insist on pressuring others who don't subscribe to their world view? What is it with you people? Your own personal threads and blogs aren't enough?! If I don't swear allegiance to your ideology you will keep trying to bully me into it? This is impoverished thinking and behavior. Please stop trying to drag this thread down to that level.

So what you are saying is - either drink this kool aid or leave? I thought this was an open, public forum. Maybe James changed the rules and I have not read the updated copy.

You've been here for just over ONE MONTH.

I suggest you learn what an open, public forum is like before criticizing.

As you'll see if you actually spend some time reading the posts on this forum, conversations can go in many directions and THAT IS A GOOD THING. That's part of having discussions on a public forum.

Don't like it? You can always start your own private Yahoo group.

	Quote:	DbPhoenix
	So there is to be no discussion of price action, candlesticks, or support/resistance? Perhaps some clarification is in order.

Come on DB, what purpose would that serve?

Geeze. Who does DB think he is anyways?

[DbPhoenix]

Uh, Eiger, you may want to look over the initial posts to the original VSA thread, which incorporates candles and MP. Is none of that now, according to you, appropriate? Are 5m bars the only bars that are allowed?

As to "my version" of price action, (a) I was addressing CW and some of his remarks re candles and (b) if you believe that VSA has nothing to do with price action, then I suggest that you review the material.

Perhaps both parts of this thread should be renamed "TradeGuider" so that everybody knows what the "thrust" is.

[Eiger]

Well, Brownfan, why would anyone expect anything different from a person who tries to pesuade me to use candlesticks because they are so much easier? And, that's right, db, continue to try to reframe. It's not about what has been talked about on this thread, it's that you keep trying to persuade others to not use VSA on the VSA thread! BTW, I like that you bring in the 5-minute chart - very on track with the discussion at hand. I didn't quite read how your version of "price action/the thing" is relevant to the volume, spread, close, background, i.e., VSA? Must have missed it. Doesn't matter, it is all intellectual masturbation, to me. I'd rather analyze markets and make trades, anyway.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>

Speaking of the 5-minute chart, here are two trades from this AM:

1 - Premarket: a wide spread down bar, closing in the middle, indicating large interests were buying as others were selling as a reaction to the 8:30 AM news.

Price drifted lower retesting the 1361.50 rally high from March 24th. Note the Shortening Of Thrust at support indicating a lack of downside follow through.

A - Fairly wide spread dipping lower but closing on the opening - more buying.

B - After the open, a drive lower back to the support area, but not much volume comes out for such a wide spread. Next bar recovers all that was lost on B and then some, and closes on its highs. Buying.

C - A Test on low volume (less than the previous two bars) and entry on the close. Trade exit just below first resistance.

D - Wide spread up bar closing onthe lows with ultra high volume. Next bar unable to advance on high volume. Weakness came into the market, and price falls lower.

E - A no demand UpThrust and entry for short on the close. Note No Demand 2 bars earlier.

F - Above average volume comes in and price closes in the middle, indicating possible climactic or stopping action. Next bar is down on volume less than the previous two bars, showing supply has suddenly dried up. Although I was playing for a retest of the lows, trade exited on close. Market rallies.

Eiger

[DbPhoenix]

	Quote:	Eiger
	And, that's right, db, continue to try to reframe. I like that you bring in the 5-minute chart - very on track with the discussion at hand. I didn't quite read how your version of "price action/the thing" is relevant to the volume, spread, close, background, i.e., VSA? Must have missed it.

Clearly. You may want to begin by reviewing your take on the market outlook on 3/27, which incorporated no understanding of price action and was consequently somewhat off the mark, then review habi's and dandxg's posts, which accurately assessed what was happening within the context of price action and provided forecasts which were considerably closer to the mark, perhaps because they are actively striving to understand the nature of price action and thus enliven their understanding of VSA and any other approach that shares a similar basis.

You can, of course, sing lalala as much as you like. But doing so will not deepen your understanding of VSA nor Wyckoff.

BTW, love the hindsight analysis.

[zdo]

re: "…The "WRB", in other words, disappears when the price action is displayed in another interval. The price action is the same; the only thing that's changed is the means by which it is displayed." Yes that is true. But, in other intervals, a run up into resistance (etc) does not disappear. Please be careful here - and I know we've had to deal with this issue before on T2W. You are again questioning the other's representation system without really fully explaining how yours is different / better. Even though I could see how you might feel you have explained it ad infinitum elsewhere, there are aspects to it that you are possibly so 'unconsciously competent' at seeing that you don't even realize they are a part of but not explicit your processing of price action.

I'm not making you wrong. And please don’t let anyone run you off. I’m asking you to explain the difference – besides the obvious fact of different representations of the same market action. Everything we see on our screens is a representation of the market – not the market itself. It is all at least a once removed map of the auction – whether one is looking at T&S, MP, Ohlc, Candle, Tic, CRB, P&F, MarketDelta, or lord knows what else.

And Eiger - I can say with certainty that all these posters you are chiding for going off topic are actually here in this thread to learn VSA and also that there is no way on earth they can suddenly divorce their old representation systems and ‘think’ pure VSA just like you or Tom or… Taking those same time periods and showing the VSA interpretation of the same market activity, rather than make others wrong for the way they represent the action to themselves is the best way to keep them on track.

[DbPhoenix]

	Quote:	zdo
	re: "…The "WRB", in other words, disappears when the price action is displayed in another interval. The price action is the same; the only thing that's changed is the means by which it is displayed." Yes that is true. But, in other intervals, a run up into resistance (etc) does not disappear. Please be careful here - and I know we've had to deal with this issue before on T2W. You are again questioning the other's representation system without really fully explaining how yours is different / better. Even though I could see how you might feel you have explained it ad infinitum elsewhere, there are aspects to it that you are possibly so 'unconsciously competent' at seeing that you don't even realize they are a part of but not explicit your processing of price action. I'm not making you wrong. And please don’t let anyone run you off. I’m asking you to explain the difference – besides the obvious fact of different representations of the same market action. Everything we see on our screens is a representation of the market – not the market itself. It is all at least a once removed map of the auction – whether one is looking at T&S, MP, Ohlc, Candle, Tic, CRB, P&F, MarketDelta, or lord knows what else.

My initial post was directed toward CW. It was not intended to fluff anyone, most of all Eiger. And based on the content of both parts of the thread, it was not off-topic.

However, to pursue this subject on this thread would very likely become off-topic rather quickly. Therefore, I'll respond to your question on your volume thread.

[Eiger]

	Quote:	zdo