[VSA] Volume Spread Analysis Part II

[rodney]

	Quote:
	In fact have the highest respect for Tom Williams who made a great effort over 10yrs back to reveal all the market manipulation in his "Undeclared Secrets........."

BearBull
I have the BootCamp CD and Master the Markets.. Did you find that the "Undeclared Secrets" added new value to the more recently published CD and Book?

	Quote:
	My intent has been to highlight the fact that there is enough material on Price/Vol, VSA in these forums and in the numerous highly informative threads by Dbphoenix elsewhere (also from relatively inexpensive books , Justin Mamis, Marcel Link, Lukeman, Vadym Graifer) for anybody to learn and with hard graft, come up with setups/Strategy/tactics, test them out thoroughly in realtime and then apply with consistency and discipline, there is absolutely no need to throw away their hard earned cash on expensive software or private tutoring. Many of these live private tutoring classes are by those who have mastered the art of creating illusion , make general remarks on expectations where price would go, same time continue babbling on previous support/resistance, the mouse continuously moving all over the chart, prices meantime move on, if it is in the desired direction claim the status of the all knowing messiah, if not point out why, the audience so much want to believe, they do not notice the illusion very similar to those Psychic (clairvoyant, contacting the dead etc) shows you see on the TV

Well said.
As a beginner, I too am leery of the many gurus who are so eager to exploit a beginner's need to learn. Hmmm... does this form of salesman exploitation sound a bit like the manner in which deep pocket investors exploit the sheep in the live market - with patterns such as shakeouts, holding the bag, etc ?

At any rate, I am deeply grateful for the owners of this website, and especially the VSA thread. It is the only place i visit.

One of the things I especially appreciate about this VSA thread, is that the same concepts as taught in the original books and Cd's are discussed in this thread with so much more clarity.
So many contributors here are not only doing an outstanding job at explaining VSA, and patiently giving so much of their time to us.
But, these master contributors also seem to enjoy helping beginners like me.

I follow along [stumble along ?]. Studying their examples over and over, I feel that I am tracing their hard-won footsteps through a steep and winding learning-curve.

Like learning to ski from a master skier.

Rodney

[Bearbull]

rodney,
I am not sure if there is any more value in "Undeclared Secrets...." per se, the basic concepts and principles remain unchanged , you would be better of reading more Wyckoff.
Also there is enough archived material at: http://www.ltg-trading.com/archives.htm
to learn from, study their charts, there is no need whatsoever to subscribe to their services.

[Eiger]

	Quote:	rodney
	I have the BootCamp CD and Master the Markets.. Did you find that the "Undeclared Secrets" added new value to the more recently published CD and Book?

My experience of reading and re-reading the Undeclared Secrets is that it was a real eye-opener. I had studied and used Wyckoff prior to reading Tom Williams's book, so I was already pretty familiar with the concepts. I think, however, that the Undeclared Secrets brings Wyckoff to life. It explains the concepts and prinicples of supply & demand and no supply, no demand in a very unique and comprehendable way. It is a true manual on tape and chart reading.

The Boot Camp CD is also highly valuable, but I see this more as an extension of Undeclared Secrets. The recent Master Classes - more high quality material - also augment the book.

Personally, I didn't really understand chart reading until I studied Undeclared Secrets. I think so highly of it that I just finished re-reading it again. I have re-read it several times, and have a notebook full of my own notes on the book. As usual, I learn more on each re-read. All of the material put out by Tom Williams and TG is valuable, but I wouldn't miss the book.

That being said, I don't know how different Undeclared Secrets is from Master the Markets. I have heard there are differences, but never read MTM.

Eiger

[habi]

	Quote:	Eiger
	That being said, I don't know how different Undeclared Secrets is from Master the Markets. I have heard there are differences, but never read MTM. Eiger

Hi Eiger

Have a look to the link below, if you are interested in MTM:

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...html#post29891

[bertg]

	Quote:	Seb Manby
	My buddie Joel Pozen sent me this video of himself trading live in his class, thought I'd share it with you. Joel studied Richard Ney and Tom Williams and is able to apply his knowledge to the real time market. Regards S.

I got really excited when I saw the above quoted post, since from everything I've seen, JP doesn't trade. He has a great reputation of being a great teacher, seems like, but I had never seen a video of him entering a live account trade, putting his money on the line...

And after the video above, I am still to see him do that.

Regards,
Bert

[Bearbull]

AND WHY SHOULD HE?
Would you do it if you could regularly pull in 4-6 in your class each paying 5k+ & 1k for ongoing 90min sessions.
Wellcome to the world of magic and illusion

[Eiger]

I thought today was a pretty interesting, sometimes a little difficult to figure out, though.

I have a VSA question for the experts. Maybe you can help. I attached a chart of this morning's session in the ES (5-min). The second bar this AM (Bar A on the attached chart) had 80,000 contracts on it. That is ultra high volume for a 5-min bar, even off the open. The bar was fairly wide spread and closed on it's lows on the heavy volume. I read this as supply. The next bar was a level bar. Then, two bars later on Bar B, price dipped lower and reversed closing on its highs. Volume was less than the previous two bars, and B bounced off of the last top at the area I labled as 1.

I didn't buy this test, as i was concerned about what I thought was supply on A. Was I reading A as supply correctly, or am i missing something? Is this one of those instances where the market suddenly becomes bullish at B? This drove me nuts all morning
Thanks for the help,
Eiger.

[DbPhoenix]

.
During the first 25 minutes, the bars that illustrate the greatest amount of trading activity are generally related to positive or neutral price bars. The waves of buying and selling can be more accurately linked to price action by using an even smaller interval.

.

.

[dandxg]

	Quote:	Eiger
	I thought today was a pretty interesting, sometimes a little difficult to figure out, though. I have a VSA question for the experts. Maybe you can help. I attached a chart of this morning's session in the ES (5-min). The second bar this AM (Bar A on the attached chart) had 80,000 contracts on it. That is ultra high volume for a 5-min bar, even off the open. The bar was fairly wide spread and closed on it's lows on the heavy volume. I read this as supply. The next bar was a level bar. Then, two bars later on Bar B, price dipped lower and reversed closing on its highs. Volume was less than the previous two bars, and B bounced off of the last top at the area I labled as 1. I didn't buy this test, as i was concerned about what I thought was supply on A. Was I reading A as supply correctly, or am i missing something? Is this one of those instances where the market suddenly becomes bullish at B? This drove me nuts all morning Thanks for the help, Eiger.

Eiger, I am no expert, but decent so I will chime in if that's ok. I think your read is spot on. If I was going to buy a B, which is no supply or a test, I would do so with an expectation that the high of A will be retested. As I approach the high of A which is also your upper trend channel another supply line I would be watching the momentum on the tape to see if you are going to punch through or bounce off like it did.

Now if I could ask you a question? If you bought at B would you a breakout of the high with a stop below the low of bar B or would you buy at close. I have been experimenting with both and just trying to get some opinions if it's not to personal?

BTW I like your example of using trend channels with VSA/PV. I still have difficulty with combining the two. If my read is correct B and D are no supply tests which is a good sign for your uptrend channel and should give one confidence on a possible target and expectation. I vaguely recall Sebastion pointing out in one of the customer events that when approaching the supply line in an uptrend you want to see UT's and ND's off the supply line to see that it's respected which is what you appear to have at A and A1.

Maybe this is one where using $tick or $ticki would assist?

[dandxg]

	Quote:	DbPhoenix
	. During the first 25 minutes, the bars that illustrate the greatest amount of trading activity are generally related to positive or neutral price bars. The waves of buying and selling can be more accurately linked to price action by using an even smaller interval. . .

DB, is this 25 minutes a general rule to be used on a daily basis? How does it differ on days when big reports come out before RTH, like NFP and such? Thanks