[VSA] Volume Spread Analysis Part II

[erierambler]

	Quote:	DbPhoenix
	At the risk of repeating myself, it's not about bars and indicators and jargon and schematics and software and academic erudition. It's about buying pressure being more insistent than selling pressure, or vice versa. That's where it begins. If one is not attuned to that dynamic, then all the jargon in the world is not going to enlignten him.

Db,
How about starting a thread without all the jargon , and then the topic would not derail this thread? I do agree the simpler the better, less involvement mentally ........in trading.
erie

[DbPhoenix]

	Quote:	erierambler
	Db, How about starting a thread without all the jargon , and then the topic would not derail this thread? I do agree the simpler the better, less involvement mentally ........in trading. erie

That's pretty much what my blog is for (see below). As for derailing, I'm pretty much done on that score, or at least I hope so. If someone finds value in all the jargon, it's arrogant of me to tell him he doesn't. But I've made my point that the jargon is purely extraneous and there's no reason to keep hammering away at it.

[BlowFish]

	Quote:	DbPhoenix
	And that may account for the difference between us. I couldn't care less about the reasons for price's movement. When I see selling drying up at support, I go long. When I see buying dry up at resistance, I short. If price is drifting aimlessly, I do nothing. No jargon. No software. No colored arrows. No indicators (bar or otherwise). The whole manipulation thing may be nonsense or it may not. Either way it has no effect on my trading. What to me is nonsense is unnecessary complication.

Fair comment and whilst trading I guess that is the case for most of us. Supply running out at a price or demand coming in. Thats the change in dynamic that we seek to identify through change in pace, volume and momentum. Thats still the dynamic the various VSA 'paterns' seek to identify.

Having said that beliefs are important. Chart time is important. Proving it 'works' is important. For some people they like to have an underlying understanding of why it works. (just seeing something work is not enough for us). This can be a simple explanation however.

Why does price rise from support? Supply has dried up or demand has risen (or probably a bit of both) Why does support break? supply is still available or demand has not entered the market.

/agree JJ perhaps not brutal but honest. Actually its probably the greatest kindness you can do someone telling them they are pissing in the wind until they do x y z. It's like telling your best friend there breath smells when they wonder why they dont get girls.

[DbPhoenix]

	Quote:	BlowFish
	Fair comment and whilst trading I guess that is the case for most of us. Supply running out at a price or demand coming in. Thats the change in dynamic that we seek to identify through change in pace, volume and momentum. Thats still the dynamic the various VSA 'paterns' seek to identify.

Unfortunately, static charts are not dynamic, yet these are the kinds of charts that practically everybody works with, especially when they're trying to explain something to somebody, whether in an article or a post or a book, so one is in the position of explaining the nature and character of movement using something that doesn't move. Hence the fallback position: patterns. Then the subsequent focus on and reliance on the pattern, forgetting about the dynamic that created the pattern in the first place, leading to an occasional and sometimes frequent misreading of the "pattern" (e.g., the "head and shoulders").

"No Demand", for example, is an important concept, but it has nothing to do with bars since bars don't exist in the continuous flow of transactions. "No Demand" is more accurately a "state of being" for the relationship between buyers and sellers at that time. It's a portion of that continuous flow that is led up to and fallen away from. On the other hand, "No Demand" as jargon has everything to do with bars, but for me is far less useful when it finds its way to that particular box.

[dandxg]

What I find that works for me is to look at the macro and then the micro. Here's what I mean. After looking at the DB's diagrams on ET for countless hours I just look for a pullback on lighter volume that is clearly indentifiable and then I look for an upthrust or a no demand for entry. Why? Because they are both logical to me. I have the macro correct which drives the ND or UT trade set up. For a newbie to price volume, the specicifity of looking for an exact bar gives the structure which I need to keep on plan. Keeping to one's trade plan we can all agree is of vital importance.

[DbPhoenix]

	Quote:	dandxg
	For a newbie to price volume, the specicifity of looking for an exact bar gives the structure which I need to keep on plan. Keeping to one's trade plan we can all agree is of vital importance.

And if you need that structure, then stick with it for as long as you need it.

But just for grins, plot a line-on-close using this same timeframe.

[Bearbull]

	Quote:	DbPhoenix
	Unfortunately, static charts are not dynamic, yet these are the kinds of charts that practically everybody works with, especially when they're trying to explain something to somebody, whether in an article or a post or a book, so one is in the position of explaining the nature and character of movement using something that doesn't move. Hence the fallback position: patterns. Then the subsequent focus on and reliance on the pattern, forgetting about the dynamic that created the pattern in the first place, leading to an occasional and sometimes frequent misreading of the "pattern" (e.g., the "head and shoulders"). "No Demand", for example, is an important concept, but it has nothing to do with bars since bars don't exist in the continuous flow of transactions. "No Demand" is more accurately a "state of being" for the relationship between buyers and sellers at that time. It's a portion of that continuous flow that is led up to and fallen away from. On the other hand, "No Demand" as jargon has everything to do with bars, but for me is far less useful when it finds its way to that particular box.

What a great insight, candid, lucid and without any fluff and all given freely, still folks tend to whine and winge,
However if a couple of brainwashed stooges were sent in to these thread to trumpet first about their chance encounter with their godsent mentor, then conduct webinars purporting to possess an uncanny ability to read the market, born out of an omniscient, clairvoyant gift from the divine, then offer a mentoring course for 5k, first ensuring to have a prior interview to ascertain whether the wannabe mentee is a suitable candidate for psychological control, reject those of strong minds who might challenge and upset the boat during the classes, create an illusion of realtime trade calls, keep reminding the audience how privileged they were out the many millions out there to be in the presence of a supreme master of the markets. 4 weeks rapidly pass by as the mentees are left bemused as to: did they learn " How To Trade".
But wait for it, Lo and Behold the answer for that is to embark on a further 10 sessions of one to one 90min sessions at the cost of $1000 each.

TALK ABOUT A PROFESSIONAL CAMPAIGN IN THE MARKET

[DbPhoenix]

Sounds like there's an interesting story in the wings here

[Bearbull]

	Quote:	DbPhoenix
	Sounds like there's an interesting story in the wings here

Sure is, ever consider going into mentorship, you could make a fortune, setup a hefty entry fee, people would then queue up, give freely, they don't want to know, human nature, never changes

[Sledge]

Db-
I know you are being as candid as you can with all of the questions being tossed your direction. I appreciate your candor.

After typing this message below, it is choppy and appears ungathered, but with a complex question, I apparently am not presenting my thoughts in a consolidated and succinct manner trying to ask what I would like to ask- but here goes:

I wondered if you could just plainly state how you learned your "feel" for the market and apply it- how you feel out the trade- in a sense you are doing just that.

I suppose this is a continuation of our conversation we started a week ago- I understand that you can sort of "sense" or "get a feeling" the particular rally or decline is wearing out. Since you don't use bars or volumes etc but S/R.

I guess I'm asking- does the "feel" or the sensing come with practice, as every market is different and has its own personality? Meaning that since I focus on the GBP/USD day in and day out, I have more of a natural "feel" of how the market acts- if I tried to apply that "rhythm" to say the JPY- I'd get murdered.

Guess I'm trying to pick your brain about how you get from Trade Enter to Trade Close- knowing when to pull the trigger on both. Your method seems un-congested and ro be applying the KISS theory, although from all of us looking in, at present, it is like heading to the Auto Show to see the newest model of XYZ.- We can look, but we want to drive it. Can you help some of us understand how your method can be achieved for other traders?
Sledge