Better for scalping: ES or YM?

[Er2Junkie]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	That is open for debate. If you lease a seat (or purchase one) and get your commissions under $3 round trip and focus on the ES, I think slippage is not an issue. So if going for 2-3 ticks = $25-$37.50 profit - $3 commission = $22 - $24.50 in profits each trade. Trade some decent size and all of a sudden there's a system that works. And you wouldn't need to trade 1000 contracts to hit a good income. Even so, I've been instructed by a number of brokers that you can hit the ES with 1000 contracts during regular volume times and be fine. Of course, the keys are what size are your losses and how often do you take a loss. But the numbers can work if used in a robust system.

The main problem is that you will always be last in line on your entries and exits even if you place them right away. Escpecially in the ES. Like it has been said before here the market has to actually go through your price for a fill. No matter how small your comissions are, this will take you out..trust me

Besides that you have to work with a stop, even a soft stop will get you killed in this market. It might work out most of the time with a soft stop but the one time will take away all your wins in one move.

I developed trading systems for funds which scalp the market and they play orders at the beginning of the day and pull them once the price gets close so when they need them they are first in line on the ES. I garantee you that no trading system with targets below 2points on the ES will make money on the long run (without hedging).

Good luck!

[The Bear]

	Quote:	Er2Junkie
	Besides that you have to work with a stop, even a soft stop will get you killed in this market. It might work out most of the time with a soft stop but the one time will take away all your wins in one move.

I agree with you on this part. It may look good theoretically - 1000 contacts 2 ticks-1 tick or whatever, but this isn't good unless he has a near 100% accuracy rate, and nobody has that.

[rcfran]

	Quote:	Er2Junkie
	The main problem is that you will always be last in line on your entries and exits even if you place them right away. Escpecially in the ES. Like it has been said before here the market has to actually go through your price for a fill. No matter how small your comissions are, this will take you out..trust me Besides that you have to work with a stop, even a soft stop will get you killed in this market. It might work out most of the time with a soft stop but the one time will take away all your wins in one move. I developed trading systems for funds which scalp the market and they play orders at the beginning of the day and pull them once the price gets close so when they need them they are first in line on the ES. I garantee you that no trading system with targets below 2points on the ES will make money on the long run (without hedging). Good luck!

I scalp the e-minis everyday and I must correct some statements that you made above. The Globex routing algorithm is first in first out. Additionally, you can get filled on limit orders without price trading through them. As long as the bid or ask moves to your order level, you do have a chance of getting filled. I know this first hand as I experience it on a regular basis...

[rcfran]

	Quote:	Er2Junkie
	I have been trading for over 15 years in futures now and there is no way to make money in the ES with just a 2-3 tick target. Comission and Slippage will take you out.

I beg to differ as I trade with a small group of traders everyday doing exactly what you profess to be impossible - scalping the ES for 2 ticks per trade.

The key is knowing when to walk away for the day. Make your income and go home...

[cosmic]

good point rcfran, we are not looking for homeruns, but consistently green days...this will build an account up...just look at friday morning, the bsc trouble gave you the chance to be done in 30 mins.

[Armand]

	Quote:	OAC
	Do you know that 50 contracts controls about $3 million. A 1% move, which can easily happen in less than a couple hours given today's volatility, means a $30,000 swing in your account.

Would someone please explain what this means? I'm not quite sure I understand and it seems very important...

[Sparrow]

This is because you only have to pay a margin on futures to buy a contract unless you take delivery. But price changes take full effect on your account not only the money you had to pay for buying the contracts.
e.g. E-mini S&P: $12.5 per tick * 50 contracts = $750 per tick
It just takes 10 S&P points to lose 30k, that's less than 1% at the moment.

[OAC]

	Quote:	Armand
	Would someone please explain what this means? I'm not quite sure I understand and it seems very important...

	Quote:	OAC
	Do you know that 50 contracts controls about $3 million. A 1% move, which can easily happen in less than a couple hours given today's volatility, means a $30,000 swing in your account.

Sorry that was written a couple months ago, now it is more like a couple of minutes instead of a couple of hours.