Better for scalping: ES or YM?

[james_gsx]

I've been scalping both recently, and honestly I find the ES a little easier since it seems to honor s/r better. But it really comes down to what works best for you and what you consider scalping. Everyone has their own views on the topic.

But for the YM on scalping, I personally prefer a 243 VBC chart and a simple oscillator. Yet on the ES I use a 3 min and 15min.

One more thing, after I've come to realize time and time again that I tend to scalp naturally I don't think it's the way to go. I've seen others such as HLM take A LOT more profit then I do when we enter the same time, simply because I am so conservative and I want the quick points whereas he is looking for the longer trade. So a trade I get +2.00 ES he is getting +4.00 or more, and that really adds up at the end of the day. The other drawback of scalping is your entry is absolutely crucial, bad fill and your scalp can bust. I know you didn't ask that, but I thought I would throw it in anyways.

[Disco Scottie]

	Quote:	OAC
	I hope that is a hypothetical question. The reason you are asking this question is probably that you don't have enough experience under your belt and you are already trading 50 contracts ? Do you know that 50 contracts controls about $3 million. A 1% move, which can easily happen in less than a couple hours given today's volatility, means a $30,000 swing in your account. And you are doing this from your car with a wireless card and a laptop ? Well, you must be a very wealthy man.

I have a few bucks.

I'm very careful about my entries, and I look for small profits so my exposure is limited. I don't randomly scalp, I watch for very specific setups which will usually give me a minimum of 2 points... but I tend to get out early, a few ticks with 50 contracts is a nice profit. I had five good entry points today with my strategy, traded four of them for 2 ticks each... so a total of 2 points on the day.

And I should have clarified in my intro post about the laptop in the car - I'm home for the morning session, usually until about noon. I try not to trade the lunch hour, so I'm only doing the car thing during the last couple hours. And the trades that occur during this time tend to happen when I'm parked somewhere (but I'll admit, I have done some at stoplights).

[brownsfan019]

DS - I would stick with the ES at 50+ contracts. Just too much slippage on the YM to scalp with that many.

[The Bear]

	Quote:	Disco Scottie
	I have a few bucks. I'm very careful about my entries, and I look for small profits so my exposure is limited. I don't randomly scalp, I watch for very specific setups which will usually give me a minimum of 2 points... but I tend to get out early, a few ticks with 50 contracts is a nice profit. I had five good entry points today with my strategy, traded four of them for 2 ticks each... so a total of 2 points on the day. And I should have clarified in my intro post about the laptop in the car - I'm home for the morning session, usually until about noon. I try not to trade the lunch hour, so I'm only doing the car thing during the last couple hours. And the trades that occur during this time tend to happen when I'm parked somewhere (but I'll admit, I have done some at stoplights).

RE: commissions, unless you are a local or have a membership at the exchange, or somehow have access to the extremely low commissions that these traders have, scalping becomes difficult in the long run for the retail trader. Typically, scalpers who do it for a living make hundreds of round turns a day with a hold time lasting seconds.

Now if this is just a hobby of yours, by all means. But watch the commissions closely, you could be spending thousands in a month.

[brownsfan019]

Bear brings up a great point - if trading many lots and/or round trips per day, leasing a seat is highly recommended as an option to keep costs down. It takes a little footwork to get it all done, but well worth it in my opinion if trying to drive down your costs.

[timokrates]

Another point could be the tick/point value.

If you are a very short term trader and you scale out or exit on a discretionary basis, then making 1 tick in the ES would mean that you are still profitable, assuming $5 commissions...

[The Bear]

	Quote:	timokrates
	Another point could be the tick/point value. If you are a very short term trader and you scale out or exit on a discretionary basis, then making 1 tick in the ES would mean that you are still profitable, assuming $5 commissions...

That's assuming he never has losing trades and he occasionally has 1 tick losses. Alot of scalpers don't use stops, so if the market runs away on you....ooops.

[timokrates]

	Quote:	The Bear
	That's assuming he never has losing trades and he occasionally has 1 tick losses. Alot of scalpers don't use stops, so if the market runs away on you....ooops.

We don't have to talk about stops here, this is essential, but you have to be fast and when you see big orders comming in against you, you have to be quick and get out - even with one tick...

[Er2Junkie]

I have been trading for over 15 years in futures now and there is no way to make money in the ES with just a 2-3 tick target. Comission and Slippage will take you out.

[brownsfan019]

	Quote:	Er2Junkie
	I have been trading for over 15 years in futures now and there is no way to make money in the ES with just a 2-3 tick target. Comission and Slippage will take you out.

That is open for debate.

If you lease a seat (or purchase one) and get your commissions under $3 round trip and focus on the ES, I think slippage is not an issue.

So if going for 2-3 ticks = $25-$37.50 profit - $3 commission = $22 - $24.50 in profits each trade. Trade some decent size and all of a sudden there's a system that works. And you wouldn't need to trade 1000 contracts to hit a good income. Even so, I've been instructed by a number of brokers that you can hit the ES with 1000 contracts during regular volume times and be fine.

Of course, the keys are what size are your losses and how often do you take a loss. But the numbers can work if used in a robust system.