What's a good place to put 10K for 10 months?

[AbeSmith]

	Quote:	TinGull
	Oh...looking to make a grand on 10k in a lower risk environment wouldn't be too tough to do over a 10 month period, really. ThinkOrSwim should be able to lend a hand with their autotrading service.

Tin, read my post to Nick above about FXI and commodities. Would be interested to hear your take on those, or other swing to long term trades that you might do.

[The Bear]

	Quote:	AbeSmith
	Thanks Nick. I don't think I can afford a financial adviser. But thanks for the info. By managed funds do you mean mutual funds? Because I hear they are not very good and don't beat the S&P. I'm also interested in an index or commodity. Index might be a bit risky given the economic turmoils. I witnessed the China move and now I see the FXI has come down dramatically. Not sure how correlated it is with China. It seems to me the Chinese are seeing the impact of worsening US economy. But if things turn around the Chinese economy will have the better return. So I was intrigued by the FXI and though it might be a good thing to buy and hold on to in the long turn, not necessarily right now but perhaps after a day's rallie and with stops a bit below the point where it rallied from. Though I don't know anything about the Chinese market and why it is doing what it is doing. In other words, is it something else that caused the FXI to drop so much other than drop in US? And then I also hear about gold and oil which might be a good buy on a dip. These are the markets that intrigue me the most right now. But I'm a beginner so I was wondering what others might think about it. I was also interested to see if it might be better to put the money in a CD or something low risk, but the returns are not much.

I would point your activities towards China. The China bull market is in the early stages, it's going to be a long game. Be prepared for big swings though if you are diving in the oil sector, and use good risk management or the gaps in the daily movements will scare you at first.

I personally wouldn't go long on the oil sector stocks right now, it's feeling a bit exhausted (this is what I trade every day for position trades). Feel free to PM me if you have any basic questions.

The stock markets tough right now in my opinon. I've just been waiting for the very bearish days and have been short selling alot, and not doing any oil futures trading this month. Once we clear $100.00 per barrel, if we can close above it, then next target $110.00 and im back in the game. But until then, there is some psychological barrier to $100.00...even though it's silly and it's just a number, i'll wait to see what happens. Everyone's fixated on it.

[brownsfan019]

Abe,
10% return in 10 months is doable, but not easy, especially if you just park it into some funds/stocks. A managed program could work, but fees could be an issue as well.

My suggestion is to either do it yourself and keep your expenses very low or settle for less. I'm guessing your experience in Oil and/or China is limited, if any at all. That's a recipe for disaster. Just b/c you want to pop that $10k does not mean you should just throw it somewhere you know little about.

You have learned quite a bit trading the YM, so start there. Maybe not just your trading, but something else... I don't know what that something else is, but stick with what you know. You know how the YM moves. You know the margins, risks, etc. You've seen there's plenty of movements lately, so that $1k return could be had in days/weeks. As much as I do not want to say it, a signal calling service could do it. I have ZERO to recommend, but if you find a hot trader right now, you could get that $1k in no time. Just don't get greedy if you do. I am not condoning using a trading service, so please no one mis interrupt that.

For illustration sake:

• $10k could get $500 margins = 20 contracts to trade.
• Since I don't care for the YM, we will assume the ES is being traded.
• Goal is $1000 return = 20 ES pts.
• Need 20 ES pts on ONE contract OR ONE point on 20 contracts.
• So, there you go - ONE ES pt trading 20 contracts will get you the $1000 return.
• Doesn't get any easier than that.

Keep in mind that this is a idea or a idea.

My point is that the return needed/wanted is very attainable but risk is needed in order to do this.

THE ILLUSTRATION ABOVE IS JUST THAT - AN ILLUSTRATION.
BY NO MEANS AM I RECOMMENDING ANYONE DO THIS, INCL ABE.
THIS IS MORE OF A GAMBLE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

[Nick1984]

	Quote:	AbeSmith
	Thanks Nick. I don't think I can afford a financial adviser. But thanks for the info. By managed funds do you mean mutual funds? Because I hear they are not very good and don't beat the S&P. I'm also interested in an index or commodity. Index might be a bit risky given the economic turmoils. I witnessed the China move and now I see the FXI has come down dramatically. Not sure how correlated it is with China. It seems to me the Chinese are seeing the impact of worsening US economy. But if things turn around the Chinese economy will have the better return. So I was intrigued by the FXI and though it might be a good thing to buy and hold on to in the long turn, not necessarily right now but perhaps after a day's rallie and with stops a bit below the point where it rallied from. Though I don't know anything about the Chinese market and why it is doing what it is doing. In other words, is it something else that caused the FXI to drop so much other than drop in US? And then I also hear about gold and oil which might be a good buy on a dip. These are the markets that intrigue me the most right now. But I'm a beginner so I was wondering what others might think about it. I was also interested to see if it might be better to put the money in a CD or something low risk, but the returns are not much.

Abe managed funds are an Australian term for what I guess you would call a mutual fund i.e: you buy units in a fund which then uses your capital to trade and you receive returns via imcome distributions as well as capital appreciation in the unit price.

There are many diverse types of funds that can be invested into including geared funds which as the name implies also borrows money to fund investments therefore increasing returns (please note however that gearing whilst being able to increase returns can also increase losses like any leveraged product).

If you want exposure to the Chinese sector or commodities then there are plenty of funds available that have weightings in these sectors. The advantage of a fund though is that you get extra diversification to additional sectors that you would find hard to do yourself with only 10k to play with.

Eg: A fund that is a China capital growth fund will not be invested 100% in Chinese stocks. Part of the risk will be hedged by investing in US stocks, Japanese stocks, and some in Cash.

In terms of getting a financial adviser I don't know how the system works over there in the US but here you can often pay for the advice through your product and not from your own pocket. Say a standard commission rate is 4.5% (you can always get a discount if you're smart, the planner will want your ongoing business and trail commissions more than a few extra hundred bucks up front commission) then on a 10k investment you will have only 9550 going into the markets. You don't pay anything extra from you're pocket. If you find a planner who knows what he is doing he can tailor your investment to suit your needs. If a 10% return over 10 months is what you're after he should choose a fund that has a relatively high income return rate with a capital growth rate that at least meets its benchmark index return. That shouldn't be to hard to do.

Conversely if you have the time you can do the research yourself to find the right fund/s that meets your needs and invest directly and save yourself the commissions but that could be costly in terms of time better spend trading! Also if you have limited experience in these fields and not much knowledge of international economics then it may be best to stay clear of these things.

Take you're time and make an informed decision.

[TinGull]

Indices are lower risk than commodities I think. Again, if you talk with thinkorswim about their autotrade service, they put your money into trades where direction DOES NOT MATTER. Your trades can make money if price goes up, if price goes down, or if price stays put. Really, check them out.

[thrunner]

	Quote:	TinGull
	Again, if you talk with thinkorswim about their autotrade service, they put your money into trades where direction DOES NOT MATTER.

No disrespect to TG, but from personal experience I would be careful with TOS (Thinkorswim). They are a brokerage that can autotrade based on signals from about 50 newsletters, not all of them reputable. There is no good, easy and independent way to find out which newsletter is profitable. Their autotrade system is also buggy and hard to use when I tried it last year. Some trades which I decided to exit manually was not exited completely in autotrading, so that I ended up net short or net long on what I thought was a flat position.

I suspect they also have a conflict of interest with most newsletters in that they may provide lower cost or free trades and other benefits to the principals of such newsletter. In return, perhaps some newsletters tend to have a lot of autotrade signals and generate autotrading commissions for TOS.

They also use a simulated stop in their platform, as many brokerages do, so that on rare occasions you get stopped out when the exchange data do not support that stop out. To top it off, they also got my W9 TIN number wrong, so now I have to file another.

I am no longer with TOS. Good luck with your endeavor.

[TinGull]

Sorry you had such an experience with them. I've never had anything but amazing experiences, as have 99% of all people I've spoken with.

And, per ToS's site, the customer chooses with service they want to have the calls traded from. ToS doesn't make that choice for the customer.

[AbeSmith]

	Quote:	The Bear
	I would point your activities towards China. The China bull market is in the early stages, it's going to be a long game. Be prepared for big swings though if you are diving in the oil sector, and use good risk management or the gaps in the daily movements will scare you at first. I personally wouldn't go long on the oil sector stocks right now, it's feeling a bit exhausted (this is what I trade every day for position trades). Feel free to PM me if you have any basic questions. The stock markets tough right now in my opinon. I've just been waiting for the very bearish days and have been short selling alot, and not doing any oil futures trading this month. Once we clear $100.00 per barrel, if we can close above it, then next target $110.00 and im back in the game. But until then, there is some psychological barrier to $100.00...even though it's silly and it's just a number, i'll wait to see what happens. Everyone's fixated on it.

Thanks Bear. I agree with you. China has a long way to go and it would be a good idea for a long term investment. Oil is interesting to watch but I don't have any experience in it so I will probably stay away from it. And like you said, stocks are tough right now because the market is weak so I'm staying way from them for the moment.

[AbeSmith]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	Abe, 10% return in 10 months is doable, but not easy, especially if you just park it into some funds/stocks. A managed program could work, but fees could be an issue as well. My suggestion is to either do it yourself and keep your expenses very low or settle for less. I'm guessing your experience in Oil and/or China is limited, if any at all. That's a recipe for disaster. Just b/c you want to pop that $10k does not mean you should just throw it somewhere you know little about. You have learned quite a bit trading the YM, so start there. Maybe not just your trading, but something else... I don't know what that something else is, but stick with what you know. You know how the YM moves. You know the margins, risks, etc. You've seen there's plenty of movements lately, so that $1k return could be had in days/weeks. As much as I do not want to say it, a signal calling service could do it. I have ZERO to recommend, but if you find a hot trader right now, you could get that $1k in no time. Just don't get greedy if you do. I am not condoning using a trading service, so please no one mis interrupt that. For illustration sake: $10k could get $500 margins = 20 contracts to trade. Since I don't care for the YM, we will assume the ES is being traded. Goal is $1000 return = 20 ES pts. Need 20 ES pts on ONE contract OR ONE point on 20 contracts. So, there you go - ONE ES pt trading 20 contracts will get you the $1000 return. Doesn't get any easier than that. Keep in mind that this is a idea or a idea. My point is that the return needed/wanted is very attainable but risk is needed in order to do this. THE ILLUSTRATION ABOVE IS JUST THAT - AN ILLUSTRATION. BY NO MEANS AM I RECOMMENDING ANYONE DO THIS, INCL ABE. THIS IS MORE OF A GAMBLE THAN ANYTHING ELSE.

Thanks Brownsfan. You guess is right. I don't know much about China or Crude. But China would be easier to understand than Crude, since I've been following it for a few months, so China is in my radars but Crude is mostly something I'm interested in.

You have a very fascinating insight on trading the YM to make the money. I have learned alot since watching the YM every day for over 3months but I'm not profitable. But it is an interesting idea because the target can be reached in a few seconds. Though 10% is not a stopping number so if I continue to play the YM then statistically I'm destined to lose.

[AbeSmith]

	Quote:	TinGull
	Indices are lower risk than commodities I think. Again, if you talk with thinkorswim about their autotrade service, they put your money into trades where direction DOES NOT MATTER. Your trades can make money if price goes up, if price goes down, or if price stays put. Really, check them out.

Thanks Tin. Can you tell more about your experience with ThinkorSwim? Is options the way to go with them, b/c I don't know the first thing about options.