Today's Trading Hell

[AbeSmith]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	Welcome to the futures biz abe. I'm not going to comment on the trades as you will find over time if your trading plan can work for you. No one else can decide that. A few observations: 1) Why no firm stop loss? 2) What is your commission round turn for 1 contract? I wasn't exactly sure looking at the snapshot. 3) Have you done backtesting on this trading plan and is a day like today to be statistically expected? If so, no worries. If not, I would worry. One last question - this was done on a simulator, correct? Today should have been a good learning lesson for you since NO real money was on the line. You should be on a simulator for MONTHS before ANY real money is at stake or you will quickly be out of this game.

Hey Brownsfan. I'm not exactly sure why no firm stop loss. I think I felt I wanted to do mental stop loss, and because I felt it takes time to place those stop orders and cancel or modify them. Really I don't know why, and don't know if a firm stop loss would have turned out better or not.

I see that my comission is 4.26 per contract, and thus 8.52 per roundtrip. Is that too hight?

No backtesting was done. I'm not sure how to do that. And as far as a plan is concerned, I don't know what to say. I described my though process above, but there is no particular strategy or theory behind it that I can name.

To answer you question about the simulator, unfortunately it was not on a simulator. I have a paper trading account and traded on it a couple of trades before but I found it more useful for learing the software rather than trading, because when there is real money on the line it is a different story. You know, I just don't feel that it was working out for me. But it may be better for me to trade 1 contract instead of 2 since I'm just starting out.

[AbeSmith]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	ABE - HERE'S THE BEST ADVICE YOU WILL RECEIVE TODAY AND I'M SURE COOTER AND OTHERS WOULD AGREE: STOP TRADING REAL MONEY OR NOT. I can tell by reading your posts here that you are literally winging it thinking you can outsmart the pro's from a quick read of a couple books at B&N that you didn't even buy!?!?!? Remember Abe, futures are zero-sum. That means while you are losing, another person/bot is taking your money from you and vice versa. There are many good traders, some even here, that will take your money all day long as you wing it. I don't know how much you have to play with, but if you lose $200+/day, it's not going to take long to eat away your account. You need a foundation to build your trading 'house' and right now you have money to burn with no regard for starting w/ the basics.

You are totally right Brown.

[brownsfan019]

I don't even know where to start Abe. Honestly, no idea.

Based on your other post:
1) Have a firm stop loss. If your software is too slow, get rid of it. Consider Open ECry - nice software that is free and great commission rates.

2) 8.52 round trip on the YM? Wow, you get a terrible deal. What broker gave you this 'deal'? Again, check OEC.

3) No backtesting = good luck winging it.

4) Trade on the SIM for MONTHS. JUST DO IT. No real money yet!!!!

All I can say now Abe is that you are just learning how to crawl, but playing with professional sprinters. You have to learn to crawl and walk before considering running, let alone sprinting with the pro's.

[AbeSmith]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	I don't even know where to start Abe. Honestly, no idea. Based on your other post: 1) Have a firm stop loss. If your software is too slow, get rid of it. Consider Open ECry - nice software that is free and great commission rates. 2) 8.52 round trip on the YM? Wow, you get a terrible deal. What broker gave you this 'deal'? Again, check OEC. 3) No backtesting = good luck winging it. 4) Trade on the SIM for MONTHS. JUST DO IT. No real money yet!!!! All I can say now Abe is that you are just learning how to crawl, but playing with professional sprinters. You have to learn to crawl and walk before considering running, let alone sprinting with the pro's.

Thanks for the good advice Brown. You are absolutely right. I need more practice. I didn't know I was getting screwed by the commission. I use Interactive Brokers, bundled comission rate.

I think I misspoken about my comission before. I said 4.26 per contract, but I was trading 2 contracts at a time, so it was 4.26 per trade for 2 contracts.

[ItalianSharp]

Wow, when I read this post for the first time I thought it was a joke...no offense, I seriously had a nice laugh and figured to congratulate with you for starting this funny thread...

But then, reading your replies to other posters, I knew you were for real!!!

You should immediately stop trading real cash. Invest your money into some trading education first...probably the best idea would be to get yourself a mentor for a few weeks until you learn the ABCs of trading.

Don't even do the simulator stuff at this stage. It'd be worthless because you have no trading plan and it sounds like you are a very emotional trader.

Just forget you ever started trading and start from scratch again. Reset your brain to zero and re-program yourself.

I had the best laugh when you stated that you have no idea how pivot points are calculated yet they are very important. LOL

My advice is:

- stop trading immediately

- invest the money you save from trading into education

- get yourself a mentor whose trading style is similar to the way you'd like to trade

- if you have no money for mentoring, look for someone in this forum who trades in a similar fashion as the way you trade and then bust his balls all day long.

Good luck and stay positive, the road is long but if you are determined enough you'll see the light one day.

[AbeSmith]

	Quote:	ItalianSharp
	Wow, when I read this post for the first time I thought it was a joke...no offense, I seriously had a nice laugh and figured to congratulate with you for starting this funny thread... But then, reading your replies to other posters, I knew you were for real!!! You should immediately stop trading real cash. Invest your money into some trading education first...probably the best idea would be to get yourself a mentor for a few weeks until you learn the ABCs of trading. Don't even do the simulator stuff at this stage. It'd be worthless because you have no trading plan and it sounds like you are a very emotional trader. Just forget you ever started trading and start from scratch again. Reset your brain to zero and re-program yourself. I had the best laugh when you stated that you have no idea how pivot points are calculated yet they are very important. LOL My advice is: - stop trading immediately - invest the money you save from trading into education - get yourself a mentor whose trading style is similar to the way you'd like to trade - if you have no money for mentoring, look for someone in this forum who trades in a similar fashion as the way you trade and then bust his balls all day long. Good luck and stay positive, the road is long but if you are determined enough you'll see the light one day.

Thanks ItalianSharp. It is very funny. I can't say that I'm sad. Actually I wasn't sad before, dissapointed and a bit frustrated, but sadness did not occur. Thanks again for the good advice. And happy to hear that you had a good laugh.

[Dogpile]

<<Wow, when I read this post for the first time I thought it was a joke...>>

this occured to me to but given how long the initial post was, didn't think that was the case.... but then the part about the Barnes & Noble book reading without buying got me on the joke track again. that is some funny stuff. so funny it sounds fishy. so at this point, I am leaning more to the joke side.

kind of like "I read part of a 'how to play poker' book in the Bellagio lobby without buying it, then jumped into the high stakes no-limit game... I lost. what you all think went wrong?"

[brownsfan019]

If it's a joke, Abe did a great job with the story as he got me!

If it's not a joke, hopefully he will heed to some of the advice here and start at square one.

[TinGull]

For my 2 cents....I still consider myself new at this; it's been about 10 months now since I started day trading futures. I had started out trading option spreads before that and learned a lot about the market during that period. Day trading is intense, and I'll give my little bit of advice assuming the thread isn't a joke.

Like brown said...these markets are serious professionals who are out there to take your money...and they don't even send you a "thank you" card!! On the first day of learning how to play the violin, do you think you could go and play with the Boston Pops? Nope. I'm still in the "high school" orchestra with my trading....maybe moving up to the collegiate level soon.


10 months later and I'm now just getting the hang of things. I've been trading 1 contract for almost this entire time, and really just this week have started trading 2 since I feel MUCH more comfortable with how I'm trading. So, my first bit of advice...trade as little size as possible. Even maybe start day trading something like a few shares of SPY or DIA or something where your account can't get hit hard while you learn. You'll be learning forever...seriously.

Use a hard stop. There's very few people who are consistently disciplined enough to use a mental stop and use it each and every time without fail. I know I'll never do that. Hard stops are the way to go IMO.

Definitely get a mentor. I wish I had done it sooner. Someone who can guide you through the learning process.

[cooter]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	Welcome to the futures biz abe. I'm not going to comment on the trades as you will find over time if your trading plan can work for you. No one else can decide that.

I beg to differ.

The market decides for or against you rather quickly each and everyday.

Abe found out the hard way today.

And in case you didn't get it the first time around:

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	ABE - HERE'S THE BEST ADVICE YOU WILL RECEIVE TODAY AND I'M SURE COOTER AND OTHERS WOULD AGREE: STOP TRADING REAL MONEY OR NOT.