if you had to start over...

[Nick1984]

WOW 1 million dolla!!!

Wheres the nearest bank, I can't wait to turn my 5k margin loan into a million into 6 months! Why has nobody told me this before!

Screw university, who needs education, we all need 20 points a day weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[cooter]

20 YM points is what?

2 points on the ES?

2 points on the Ags - ZC, ZW, and ZS (CBOT Corn, Wheat and Soybeans)?

If that's the case, I should be a millionaire several times over by now

LOL

[ItalianSharp]

I don't think it's a good idea to have a fixed profit target or a fixed stoploss. I used to do that but didn't have much success with it. I've started to become successful since I got rid of all those fixed numbers, risk/reward, etc...and adopted a more flexible mind instead...

Basically, today I am more focused on the markets, the order flow, etc...rather than ratios, targets, stops, etc...

[bakrob99]

So Cooter
Can you honestly say that you make 20 pts x All the contracts Traded Every Day on the YM (or equivalent 2pts ES)...

Every Day ?

If so ... what keeps you from increasing size as your account grows?

[cooter]

Don't trade the YM, so I can't speak to that.

But since I do trade the grains....2 cents is comparatively easy (same as 2 pts on ES).

The hard part is NOT giving it all away.

That's what keeps me from exponentially increasing size on my account.

I'm at the point where I can afford to "keep it simple" and enjoy whatever the day has in store for me.

[darthtrader]

thanks guys, good food for thought.

i'm certainly not a get rich quick type, i actually read books for a year before i felt i could even place my first stock trade.

i guess i will have to see how it goes with a 10 point stop. with this first 5k account i will be looking to get max screen time as opposed to making money. i'm kind of hoping the 10 point stop forces me to only take the best entry point and then 20 points and out will force me from giving things back on a winning trade. I will explore 15 though.

i guess market orders must really suck on TS. would it make more sense to open an account with another broker along with TS? turn 10 trips a month on TS then use the other broker after? is it really that bad on TS? I have heard so much negative stuff about TS as a broker.

[ItalianSharp]

	Quote:	darthtradar
	thanks guys, good food for thought. i'm certainly not a get rich quick type, i actually read books for a year before i felt i could even place my first stock trade. i guess i will have to see how it goes with a 10 point stop. with this first 5k account i will be looking to get max screen time as opposed to making money. i'm kind of hoping the 10 point stop forces me to only take the best entry point and then 20 points and out will force me from giving things back on a winning trade. I will explore 15 though. i guess market orders must really suck on TS. would it make more sense to open an account with another broker along with TS? turn 10 trips a month on TS then use the other broker after? is it really that bad on TS? I have heard so much negative stuff about TS as a broker.

It almost sounds like it's an easy task to scalp 20 pts off YM...

Sometimes I have to sit into trades for 20-30 mins only to scalp 5-6 ticks...I wish I had the opportunity to make 20 per each trade...I'd be a millionaire within a year...

From what you are writing, I think you'd be better off demoing for a few months before losing any money. You're going to lose money anyway, but at least you'd have a better idea of what you are doing.

A fixed target /stoploss might be too big in some days and too small in other days. Focus on understanding the market as much as you can. It takes time but it's the best thing you can do.

[Fibtrader]

Darth
Here is what I would do. I can almost gurantee you will blow out a 5,000 account. Trading with one contract will not net enough profit to make up for the stop losses. You should not risk more then 2% to 3% of the account on any trade. A 5,000 account will only allow a stop loss of $100.00 to $150.00 for the entire trade (if two contracts, $50.00 - $75.00 per contract). The market will hit those stops frequently resulting in losses that could have been avoided if the account was funded properly. A 2% to 3% stop loss on a $20,000 account allows a $400 - $600 stop loss. The end result is more contracts being traded. With two or more contracts you will make more money in less time (eliminating the time exposure factor). You won't be able to swing trade a $5000 account, too much time exposure and not enough of a stop loss. NEVER... risk more then 2% to 3% of your account no matter how large it is. I speak from experience, having blown out my account before I got smart.
If you want to trade a $5000 account get the free simulator from www.NinjaTrader.com This will force you to take trades in real time so you can't cheat . Don't risk real money until you can trade "funny" money profitably. The simulator will track all of your trades in its account manager. Make sure you set up the simulator account with $5000. I think it comes set up for a $ 20,000 account. Trade the simulator account exactly as you would a real account. Make sure you set hard stops to keep your losses small, pick a target to get out at and let the market take you out not your emotions. Remember if you are afraid to lose you will never win in the market. If you use Tradestation I would recommend the Market Profiler available on this website. Some platforms offer MarketProfile (eSignal), Tradestation does not, unless you have this add on. The one on this website works very well. I won't trade without it.

Good Trading

Fibtrader

[BlowFish]

Fib welcome to the forums, I am fairly new here myself but its a quality venue.

Isn't the YM 5$ a point? that would allow 10-15 point stops @ 2-3% (if my quick mental arithmetic is not out - it often seems to be nowadays).

The 2-3% rule is a great rule of thumb that people quote to keep other people plunging in the deep end and drowning in a fairly short time. It goes hand in hand with "conventional wisdom" that you should pursue something like a 1:3 risk reward. The key thing really is risk of ruin and the amount at risk on each trade is just one component of this. Obviously if you have a higher percentage of winners in comparison to losers you can put more at risk on each trade without increasing the overall chance of ruin.

Ironically one of the main ways to increase your percentage of winners is widening your stops (in comparison to your target). As you quite rightly point out having stops that are too tight can reduce the efficacy of any method! I linked this in another thread TradersCALM - risk of ruin menu talks about RoR far better than I could.

Cheers,
Nick.

[rolange]

	Quote:	darthtradar
	how would you setup your first index futures account/strategy/risk management/position size/profit target? i just closed out my last swing trade today so should be getting setup in the next few weeks. i'm looking to open a $5k tradestation account. trade YM, 1 contract. i have been thinking a 10 point stop, 20 point daily profit target. do those sound reasonable? I would like to then add in another 5k to the account once i'm consistent to be able to scale with 2 contracts. any general mistakes anyone made they would like to share that might be able to avoid? also, did anyone not blow up their first account? I realize that may be a given on this account.

Quite by coincidence there is a similar question on ET

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showth...threadid=94282