Computer froze, lost $2800

[SunTrader]

Hedging ES with YM or the other way around might not be possible if YM gravitates over to Globex.

Might have to consider ER2 on ICE although they don't match up as well.

[MC]

	Quote:	SunTrader
	Hedging ES with YM or the other way around might not be possible if YM gravitates over to Globex. Might have to consider ER2 on ICE although they don't match up as well.

Good point, is that a confirmed move?
I know I've heard of the talk about it.
Also is Globex redundant at all or does it also freeze from time to time?

Thanks

[The Bear]

	Quote:	mcichocki_
	What I've been taught was to hedge the YM (which is what I trade) with the ES in the event of an ecbot outage. Overall consensus seems to say for every 10 YM points the ES moves roughly 1 point so it's an easy conversion with a 1 to 1 contract ratio. Granted the YM is $5 per point and the ES is $50 per point so it is potentially more per tick being risked if the 1:10 point ratio gets out of wack. BUT anywhoo...what you would do is this... Should you be in a YM position and the ecbot goes down and locks you into a position you would put the opposite order on the ES at your YM stop loss so that if the YM goes against you while trapped the ES trade fades and hedges your losses on the YM.

This frantic hedging could be dangerous too, since its difficult to know in some scenarios if your stop order is standing in the system or not, and what the spike will be like when it re-opens, and what kind of slippage you'll get.

But it's probably better than nothing.

[brownsfan019]

	Quote:	mcichocki_
	Good point, is that a confirmed move? I know I've heard of the talk about it. Also is Globex redundant at all or does it also freeze from time to time? Thanks

So far MC, Globex is light years ahead of the ecbot and rarely freezes.

As for the move, it already happened - you can trade the Russell 2000 at ICE AND the CME for now. CME loses the license next year. From what I have read and heard, the CME plans to push a S&P Midcap type contract hard to replace the ER2 and keep traders there. Guess we'll see.

[MC]

	Quote:	The Bear
	This frantic hedging could be dangerous too, since its difficult to know in some scenarios if your stop order is standing in the system or not, and what the spike will be like when it re-opens, and what kind of slippage you'll get. But it's probably better than nothing.

The whole point is drastic issues call for drastic measures though right?

So the key is the hedge should offset most if not all of of a move that went against you. Does anyone else have any other ideas or thoughts on how to hedge?

[MC]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	So far MC, Globex is light years ahead of the ecbot and rarely freezes. As for the move, it already happened - you can trade the Russell 2000 at ICE AND the CME for now. CME loses the license next year. From what I have read and heard, the CME plans to push a S&P Midcap type contract hard to replace the ER2 and keep traders there. Guess we'll see.

Nice...reliability is a great asset for a network carrying billion of dollars.

[SunTrader]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	So far MC, Globex is light years ahead of the ecbot and rarely freezes. As for the move, it already happened - you can trade the Russell 2000 at ICE AND the CME for now. CME loses the license next year. From what I have read and heard, the CME plans to push a S&P Midcap type contract hard to replace the ER2 and keep traders there. Guess we'll see.

The move that hasn't happened yet is the YM to Globex. ER2 is a whole other situation.

[brownsfan019]

	Quote:	mcichocki_
	The whole point is drastic issues call for drastic measures though right? So the key is the hedge should offset most if not all of of a move that went against you. Does anyone else have any other ideas or thoughts on how to hedge?

MC - the BEST and EASIEST way to 'hedge' is to find a platform and broker that work in situations like this.

The next step is to have a backup stock/options online account where you can quickly and easily buy/sell the corresponding index ETF or ETF option.

Now, the time that it takes to log into your online account, find what you need and place the trade will take longer than just calling your futures broker and telling them to flatten your position if you have a broker that answers the phone quickly.

So my suggestion is to not waste time having a 'oh sh*t' plan and find a broker(s) that are reliable and accessible.

[MC]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	MC - the BEST and EASIEST way to 'hedge' is to find a platform and broker that work in situations like this. The next step is to have a backup stock/options online account where you can quickly and easily buy/sell the corresponding index ETF or ETF option. Now, the time that it takes to log into your online account, find what you need and place the trade will take longer than just calling your futures broker and telling them to flatten your position if you have a broker that answers the phone quickly. So my suggestion is to not waste time having a 'oh sh*t' plan and find a broker(s) that are reliable and accessible.

Well if you're in a YM position and the eCBOT freezes your can call your broker all day, they can't do anything either correct? Tradestation will answer the phone very fast, but if the exchange is down how could they flatten me?

And if you have limited funds and can't open a few spare offshore accounts there has to be a backup or "oh $hit" plan. To not have any hedging plan when trading leveraged is a blowout waiting to happen. And to hedge on an ETF isn't that bad an idea IF you have enough in your spare account to throw at it to effectively hedge the leveraged position. I don't have enough for a 2nd account at this point so I'll stick to my disaster plan till I can afford to get a backup account (I do intend to do this ASAP).

[brownsfan019]

	Quote:	mcichocki_
	Well if you're in a YM position and the eCBOT freezes your can call your broker all day, they can't do anything either correct? Tradestation will answer the phone very fast, but if the exchange is down how could they flatten me? And if you have limited funds and can't open a few spare offshore accounts there has to be a backup or "oh $hit" plan. To not have any hedging plan when trading leveraged is a blowout waiting to happen. And to hedge on an ETF isn't that bad an idea IF you have enough in your spare account to throw at it to effectively hedge the leveraged position. I don't have enough for a 2nd account at this point so I'll stick to my disaster plan till I can afford to get a backup account (I do intend to do this ASAP).

MC - the OP's initial post was about HIS PERSONAL computer freezing, not the exchange. The exchange freezing is a different story.

Regardless, if you are too leveraged and can't afford a 2nd account backup, there's no hedging or oh sh*t options available at all. In order to hedge a position you need a 2nd account with funds sitting there waiting.

That's it. No way to hedge w/o more money. I'm not sure what you plan to have as your backup if no additional funds are available for this purpose. To hedge takes money and quite a bit of it if hedging with an ETF at a share-to-contract ratio.

If you are that worried about the leverage you are using, I would suggest scaling back the leverage and/or wait until your trading account is larger. You have a valid concern, but that is a real risk when trading a small account and/or trading with high leverage.