Why Candlestick Anaylsis is Different and Might Work for You

[DbPhoenix]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	Not sure where I thought this discussion would go HLM. Just felt like posting my observation.

I empathize. And though I haven't read all 2500 posts in the VSA threads, I did read some of the earlier posts, and the view taken at that time was much broader. Somewhere along the line, all that disappeared.

As for Market Profile, though it does seem a bit jargon-heavy, it is more open-minded, which is always a plus.

But as for candles, there's really nothing that I can contribute since I don't trade according to them. My bar interval is just too small.

Perhaps candles have developed too much of a mystique -- the exotic names, the complex patterns. Perhaps what's damaged candles is the same as what's damaged every other approach that has a sound basis: the search for signals. There is also the problem, when seeking out other traders, of having even fewer posts than you have now. The traders are busy trading.

As I said earlier. Frustrating.

[brownsfan019]

	Quote:	DbPhoenix
	Perhaps candles have developed too much of a mystique -- the exotic names, the complex patterns. Perhaps what's damaged candles is the same as what's damaged every other approach that has a sound basis: the search for signals. There is also the problem, when seeking out other traders, of having even fewer posts than you have now. The traders are busy trading. As I said earlier. Frustrating.

I agree. Steve Nison has turned into a marketing machine and as a result, candlestick analysis has all these fun names, ideas, etc.

And in the end, it's really about visually seeing the fight of the bulls and bears. You can look at a candle and say - bullish, bearish, neutral - and know nothing about candle trading.

[mister ed]

	Quote:	DbPhoenix
	If one can see those little notches. I use candles, time bars, and CVB. If I'm looking at movement, I'll use the time bar. If I need to know where the open and close are in relation to the high and low, I'll use candles (see above).

Db - care to expand on your use of CVB (Constant Volume Bars, right? - just checking)? I have used them, and still do but I don't think I have found their real potential as yet. I tend to use them in combination, a longer-frame and a shorter-frame, like you could use hourly and 5-min bars/candles (for example) together.

Brownsfan - if this is too far off topic let me know ... I know this is supposed to be about candles and you have a CV candle thread here.

[DbPhoenix]

I agree. But it's interesting to note that beginners will become rabidly devoted to the first book they read that purports to disclose secrets or anything that's "hidden". And Nison has certainly pressed the "Mysterious East" component of candles, though I'm sure he's a wonderful person.

What I like about Wyckoff is the lack of bull. Supply and demand. Anybody who's ever been to a grocery story can understand it. And no software required.

[DbPhoenix]

	Quote:	mister ed
	Db - care to expand on your use of CVB (Constant Volume Bars, right? - just checking)? I have used them, and still do but I don't think I have found their real potential as yet. I tend to use them in combination, a longer-frame and a shorter-frame, like you could use hourly and 5-min bars/candles (for example) together. Brownsfan - if this is too far off topic let me know ... I know this is supposed to be about candles and you have a CV candle thread here.

This will be a short answer, so I doubt BF will object.

Fact is I gave them my best shot but just couldn't trade without separate price and volume. I've been trading the interaction too long, and I didn't think it was worth the effort to change the habits of twenty years.

On the other hand, they make a very nice compromise between time bars and P&F. By having a CVB chart, I can plot the whole 24hr period without having a long string of relatively meaningless non-action from the close to the next day's open. Instead I may have at most two bars that cover the entire period, which isn't even enough to throw off a trendline. And lengthy midday drifts are compressed. They are also handy for finding the "volume ranges" that I use to find S&R (I've posted these in my Blog and also uploaded some sector charts yesterday to the ES/YM thread). Since time isn't so much a factor in those charts but rather price range and volume range, I can eliminate the separate volume window.

Guess that wasn't such a short answer after all.

[mister ed]

	Quote:	DbPhoenix
	Fact is I gave them my best shot but just couldn't trade without separate price and volume. I've been trading the interaction too long,

Ditto.

I persist with them though, the idea of bars/candles holding volume constant is appealing. I think they may be very useful to derive 'indicators' (like stochastics, RSI etc. from) but as I don't use indicators I don't know. I wonder if a market profile could be constructed from constant volume ... never mind now I am really getting OT.

[james_gsx]

I think brownsfan wants some thankers!

At the end of the day, do what works for you. I am very visual, so candles work great for me. The toughest part is the simple fact they are discretionary. This has lead to many mistakes on my part, but after review I realize what I did wrong. It's a simple learning curve and it's different for everyone. Some may never understand candles, and some may ignore them because they believe they don't work - yet someday find out it's that little niche they have been searching for.

I have tried VSA, but never really understood it. Could just be me. I have tried MP, but I've never really had the time to dedicate myself to educate myself.

But to be completely honest, I enjoy the exclusivity the candlestick corner has to offer I wouldn't want an enormous thread just to explain how they work. I prefer having traders with plenty of experience coming in and adding their input to something that I have dedicated a lot of time to learning and understanding. It's something that I'm yet to see duplicated on any other general trading forum.

As far as making real money over here. Just look through the various threads, the money is there

[GCB]

	Quote:	brownsfan019
	GCB - first, nice to have you back. Second, as you could tell, there has been much concentration on those two areas.

Good to be back, brownsfan. Yeah, I'm not much interested in VSA or MP. But to each their own. Really, I think people are looking for something to have confidence in and they feel the more complex and seemingly analytical it is the more legitimate it is.

[brownsfan019]

	Quote:	GCB
	Good to be back, brownsfan. Yeah, I'm not much interested in VSA or MP. But to each their own. Really, I think people are looking for something to have confidence in and they feel the more complex and seemingly analytical it is the more legitimate it is.

I couldn't agree more.

The human mind is quite an interesting thing ... we WANT stuff to be complicated so we can crack the code. We WANT the market to be such an enormous animal that only a complex system could stand a chance at killing it...

For example - I am not very handy so when it comes time to fix something (car, around the house, etc.) I just know that it will be so hard and complex that I cannot possibly do it. Until I see what is required to fix the problem... Then you sit there going that wasn't so hard after all.

Trading can be the same way if you are willing to put aside the notion that this MUST be difficult.