Easylanguage Candle Ident

[BlowFish]

Actually when you define patterns rigorously enough for a script to detect they are anything but random. That is one reason to do it, consistency, a good thing to have in trading. When you candle guys can't even agree what one or another is, that's random.

Again you have me perplexed in your zealous defence of candles yet you dismiss anyone that wants to do rigorous work to determine there efficacy or find possible uses for them if they are not a member of the 'high church of candles'. Again (to me) you do candles a dis service by sniping at other rather than offer up detailed descriptions how you use them. Too much time in Combat Grounds battlefields perhaps

[trader273]

	Quote:	BlowFish
	Actually when you define patterns rigorously enough for a script to detect they are anything but random.

Actually doing this is the main reason that anyone that has ever doing back testing via script, finds that they fail miserable. Since candle patterns are more of an art form than science, trying to code them will be a daunting task. Here's and example:

Script Rules for a Hammer:

1) Upper Shadow no more than 1 tick
2) Lower shadow at least 2* the real body
3) Real body no greater than the previous 3 candles.

Seems easy and logical enough. So you run your test and see that it fails miserable. Then you dive a little deeper and see that the program "missed" some patterns. Some of these hammers might of had an upper shadow of 2 ticks, or a lower shadow of 1.89 of the real body. But since you put this constraints on, your program couldn't find them. These strict rules, and trying to find a program that can find them, is the lazy mans way of trading. One needs to spend hundreds upon hundreds of hours of screen time to be able to use candles effectively. Having a program point some out here and there, while might help a little, will do little in the long run. You will spend more time tinkering with the code then studying what you should be. Believe me, I know! I tried to do this.

I do not get why people do not understand that the shape of the candle, while important, is not the end all and be all. The overall technical picture is what is important. If price comes down to what you have defined as a support level, and there is a hammer or a spinning top, one should think about going long. There is no need to put these constraints on. What should be defined rigorously is your support/resistance levels or whatever a trader is using on conjunction with candles. The key word is conjunction. Candles are not a trading system.

Candles were never meant to be used as a part of some black-box or gray box system. They are a tool of the discretionary trader. One must come to realize that. To be able to program candles and do it effectively and profitably is a pipe dream. If you want to use candles, get in front of the screen and study. And when you think you got it, study some more.

[brownsfan019]

	Quote:	BlowFish
	Actually when you define patterns rigorously enough for a script to detect they are anything but random. That is one reason to do it, consistency, a good thing to have in trading. When you candle guys can't even agree what one or another is, that's random. Again you have me perplexed in your zealous defence of candles yet you dismiss anyone that wants to do rigorous work to determine there efficacy or find possible uses for them if they are not a member of the 'high church of candles'. Again (to me) you do candles a dis service by sniping at other rather than offer up detailed descriptions how you use them. Too much time in Combat Grounds battlefields perhaps

Well BF, I opened this section here and have posted A LOT of stuff here. It's on you as a user to take the time to through it. It should be noted that James did NOT approach me, I approached him about doing this.

I guess it gets tiring of repeating yourself over and over and over again. How I use candles is right in front of you. It just requires a little time to find it. I am not interested in hand holding.

I see now why forums and experienced users typically fail over time. It's simple - why repeat yourself over and over when the info is there. I don't feel like repeating myself all the time when I took the time initially to open a candle corner and then have a MASSIVE amount of FREE info right there.

If that's not enough, oh well. I'm not about to plow a ton of time into repeating myself when it's right there.

Now if YOU want to take the time to read it and then come back with actual questions and discussions, we'll go there. But to expect me to regurgitate myself over and over, it ain't gonna happen.

	Quote:	raven4ns
	Here is an example of the kind of script I am talking about. Tim

As for the OP's request here, it's obvious that it's playing find a shape...

[BlowFish]

I have read what you have posted here of course. Some good stuff, thanks. It's just recently there seems to have been a change to sniping (Battlefields rule!) rather than some of the constructive posts of yester year.

Still the merits of candles seem better discussed here than in the VSA thread so we are making progress in that regard.

I am still interested in why you think a rigid set of parameters (such as could be scripted) is somehow random. I thought one of your interests was automation. Would that not be useful in that regard? It seems to me for some reason some people want to leave descriptions vague and more to the point ambiguous. I just don't get it.

BTW I still understand that context is very important but is that a reason not to make sure everyone (and not just those in the church of candles excuse my provocative nomenclature) understands what the patterns are.

Finally I have started trying candles again (I change now and then for different reasons) for a particular type of thing I am trying to visualise. More on that later, but you might have a convert ironically!

[james_gsx]

Trader273 makes a great point about looking at the whole technical picture. I can't even count how many times I screwed up because I didn't look at the whole picture. I saw a candle, and took the trade then gave my money back. Or I take a trade, seeing the candle disagreeing with me, and lost. Candles are the same thing as bars, they just display the information in a different manner - but the high/low/open/close is all the same. There is no possible way that it's wrong, because theres no possible way that price is wrong. The reason people screw up is because they don't pay attention and look for specific candles.

For some candles work great with their personality, others not so much. That doesn't mean it's wrong or right. I get tired of people acting like candles are some sort of indicator, they aren't indicators - simply price!

People also spend too much time looking for trend reversals in candles. They get a doji at the top of a trend, and short like crazy. The next few days price moves sideways, then pops back up and they lose their shirt. Then they log onto elitetrader and say candles don't work. It's not like a MACD crossover, the only thing that happened was price stalled due to a lack of demand. You would get that same information from a bar or line chart. Now had that spinning top came at a major resistance area with strong volume, it would most likely be a good short for a small retracement of the overall trend. Then that same guy would log onto ET and pretend he knew the secret to trading, just to blow his gains the next week falling into another stupid mistake newbies make. I do it all the time, except I don't waste my time on ET. The problem isn't with candles, but with my inconsistency, I let emotion take over and ignore the painfully obvious signals.

In fact, I would be willing to bet that if you could dumb down VSA and combined it with market profile and candlesticks you could have one hell of a strategy. The only downfall would be the simple fact it's discretionary, and that in itself would set up many for failure.

As for the OP, it might be more useful to have specific candles highlighted to help you train your eye in real time. But I wouldn't make any trades off it. Then once you have a good idea what to look for, take it off and see how you do. I bet you quickly realize though that the name of the candle is meaningless, but the shape is rather important..

[james_gsx]

	Quote:	BlowFish
	I am still interested in why you think a rigid set of parameters (such as could be scripted) is somehow random. I thought one of your interests was automation. Would that not be useful in that regard? It seems to me for some reason some people want to leave descriptions vague and more to the point ambiguous. I just don't get it.

Basically because it lies in the eye of the beholder. For someone as experienced as brownsfan who knows exactly what he's looking for - could be useful. But for a newbie, they would go hammer hunting and blow their account in a week. Overall, you really want to focus on the size of the body and the wick. This shows you the battle between the bulls and bears - it's all visual. If you are not a visual person, you will suck at reading candles.

If you could setup a program that would fire off a signal based off a specific candle and other characteristics that might be different. But most people just want to setup a program to hold their hand so they can buy every candle signal. Yet they'll end up missing the big picture.

But like I said in my other post, candles don't work for everyone. I set up a trade the other week using bar charts. I did okay, but once I switched from bars to candles I did much better. While others might have been confused, the trade concept made more sense to me.

I'm done ranting, time to make a new thread

[brownsfan019]

	Quote:	BlowFish
	I have read what you have posted here of course. Some good stuff, thanks. It's just recently there seems to have been a change to sniping (Battlefields rule!) rather than some of the constructive posts of yester year.

Sorry if it looks that way, not done intentionally on my end.

	Quote:
	Still the merits of candles seem better discussed here than in the VSA thread so we are making progress in that regard. I am still interested in why you think a rigid set of parameters (such as could be scripted) is somehow random. I thought one of your interests was automation. Would that not be useful in that regard? It seems to me for some reason some people want to leave descriptions vague and more to the point ambiguous. I just don't get it.

I would love to automate my trading but it's just so freakin hard with candles. Since I am not playing find a shape, it's more of a find a shape within a very strict set of parameters if and only if other conditions are met.

The OP's screenshot is a PERFECT example of this. That candle he has highlighted is NOT what his software is telling him it is. Not even close. That's part of the problem.

	Quote:
	BTW I still understand that context is very important but is that a reason not to make sure everyone (and not just those in the church of candles excuse my provocative nomenclature) understands what the patterns are. Finally I have started trying candles again (I change now and then for different reasons) for a particular type of thing I am trying to visualise. More on that later, but you might have a convert ironically!

I think candles, when studied and put to use properly, are very useful. For me, it's more visual than anything else. I can see the battle of the bulls and bears instantly.

[raven4ns]

Hello,
It seems as though there have been some assumptions made about how I intend to use the candle ident code. It is not intended to be used as the sole method for trading. I use a proprietary methodology for trading and the candle ident is just additional information that I like presented in that fashion.
I didn't mean to cause such a "tempest in a teapot", I was merely hoping to find some coding for my charts. We each approach trading in our own fashion and mine will most likely be different from yours. That is not to say my approach is better but it is simply my approach.
This seems like a nice spot to exchange ideas and hopefully I will be able to contribute something to the cause. Thank you for your ideas and suggestions.

Kindest regards,


Tim